According to your position, it would be better to leave the unreached peoples of the earth in spiritual darkness, unaware of the law & person of God. If condemnation comes with knowledge, instead of natural spiritual state, then are we not condemning them through our evangelistic efforts? Leave them in ignorance and they will all be saved. To me, this position goes too far in justification through ignorance.
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Does the grace Of God cover ALL Under "Age of Accountibility/"
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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According to your position, it would be better to leave the unreached peoples of the earth in spiritual darkness, unaware of the law & person of God. If condemnation comes with knowledge, instead of natural spiritual state, then are we not condemning them through our evangelistic efforts? Leave them in ignorance and they will all be saved. To me, this position goes too far in justification through ignorance.
Not at all. If you will read the first few Chapters of Romans, you will see that God has given a level of understanding of the law, to every single individual in the world. Though the Bible provides a FULL revelation of the law, Romans 1 and 2 tells us that every man has enough revelation of the law to condemn him.
Paul, then, in Romans 7 and Romans 5, is not speaking of when he received the law in the sense of a written code, but rather the point at which he had an understanding of what his conscience was telling him; i.e. that his actions were wrong, and deserved punishment.
And again, in their natural state, children are deserving of wrath. I am not talking about whether they deserve it. I am speaking about whether they are actually condemned for it, or whether they receive mercy.
NO! the basis remains the exact same, due to the atonement oprovided by death of Christ on the Cross, its just that the Lord will have decreed/ordained that for those unable to do the faith required, that he will have it effectually applied towards them by act of His power Divine Will!
Think the term 'Age of Accountibility" makes some reject this concept!
perhaps bestter to say that while ALL are sinners, born under the curse of God, that God can decide to provide unto the objects of His wrath His mercies on the basis of the Cross, and decide to apply it towards those unable to themselves!
Where is this doctrine found in Scripture?
The problem I see with all of that - if we say someone is "without the law" - then would that not apply to those in the deepest, darkest parts of the world where Missionaries have yet to trod? It would seem to then mean that age is irrelevant so long as people are not exposed to God's Law - because they are not guilty until they "know". This of course flyies
None of us are able to "do the faith required" - There are none righteous, no not one. None seek after God. Remember - the faith itself is GIVEN to us as a gift from God. If God could grant ME saving faith - then who can He not grant said faith too? After all, He is the creator of all things. Can God create someone that even He cannot give faith too?
Folks - we are treading on thin theological ice - all because we are searching for something that is not really addressed in God's Word. WE are doing EXACTLY what we point fingers at the Catholic Church for doing - relying on tradition and our desires instead of the Bible.
Romans 11:34-36
For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.
God owes us nothing. Indeed, not even an explanation of this issue.
Not at all. Read my earlier post. I will repost it, for your convenience...
"Not at all. If you will read the first few Chapters of Romans, you will see that God has given a level of understanding of the law, to every single individual in the world. Though the Bible provides a FULL revelation of the law, Romans 1 and 2 tells us that every man has enough revelation of the law to condemn him.
Paul, then, in Romans 7 and Romans 5, is not speaking of when he received the law in the sense of a written code, but rather the point at which he had an understanding of what his conscience was telling him; i.e. that his actions were wrong, and deserved punishment.
And again, in their natural state, children are deserving of wrath. I am not talking about whether they deserve it. I am speaking about whether they are actually condemned for it, or whether they receive mercy. "
I am sorry, can you explain the nuance between what you are saying and an "age of accountability" view? I might be missing something crucial....I have always subscribed to what is known as an "age of accountability" so to speak, yet I thought it was universally understood that:
What is the difference between this and the "AOA" view?
Numbers 15:27-29 points this out.
Quote:
27 ‘And if a person sins unintentionally, then he shall bring a female goat in its first year as a sin offering. 28 So the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins unintentionally, when he sins unintentionally before the LORD, to make atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. 29 You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them.
BTW, I think this verse gives insight into the question of infants that die.
Notice the subject, unintentional sin.
Notice the guilt, atonement needed.
Notice the sacrifice, blood offering, ie the Cross.
Notice the GRACE, forgiven him.
Notice to whom this "law" or principle applies, native-born and stranger.
Infants are unintentional sinners.
Unintentional sin needs an atonement.
The atonement is in Jesus Christ alone.
God chooses and extends Grace unto these infants who die.
Quote:
27 ‘And if a person sins unintentionally, then he shall bring a female goat in its first year as a sin offering. 28 So the priest shall make atonement for the person who sins unintentionally, when he sins unintentionally before the LORD, to make atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him. 29 You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them.
BTW, I think this verse gives insight into the question of infants that die.
Notice the subject, unintentional sin.
Notice the guilt, atonement needed.
Notice the sacrifice, blood offering, ie the Cross.
Notice the GRACE, forgiven him.
Notice to whom this "law" or principle applies, native-born and stranger.
Infants are unintentional sinners.
Unintentional sin needs an atonement.
The atonement is in Jesus Christ alone.
God chooses and extends Grace unto these infants who die.
Gal. 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,
That is with or without the law, all are under sin. What does that mean?
1 Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one;----And---
Rom 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin death; but the gift of God eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Can God birth one from the grave and then give him eternal life?
Does one have to be alive to be born again or can one who has been alive but died be given birth again from the dead?
who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;
What does it mean that Jesus was, "the firstborn from the dead"?
What does it mean, "that he might be the firstborn among many brethren"?
What has taken place that make the brethren conformed to the image of the firstborn Jesus?
The flesh and blood man Abraham died not having received/inherited the promises. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh or in Abraham's case was flesh. Many shall come from the north, the south, the east, and the west and sit down with Abraham in the kingdom of God. Therefore he will be there. How?
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Will Abraham be born again and inherit the kingdom of God?
What about David? And his unnamed son? What about the thief on the cross, Lord remember me when thou come in thy kingdom?
Before I am asked. There is no age of accountability, all whether 1 minute old or 100 years old must be born again and just as one has nothing to do with his birth into this world neither will one have anything to do with his birth into the kingdom of God.
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I agree percho.
Perhaps the area of question then comes to the purpose of "the law."
An infant is unaware of "the law" and as one matures "the law" (as the Scriptures state) is like a school that makes one aware of a need.
There was a "time God winked at" and personally I consider that applicable to the infants of all time.
But there is also a time (and there is no specific age) in which every person becomes aware of not only the conditions of a sinful society, but of their own failings.
The term "age of accountability," though I personally don't like the wording, may in application fit.
Perhaps the area of question then comes to the purpose of "the law."
An infant is unaware of "the law" and as one matures "the law" (as the Scriptures state) is like a school that makes one aware of a need.
There was a "time God winked at" and personally I consider that applicable to the infants of all time.
But there is also a time (and there is no specific age) in which every person becomes aware of not only the conditions of a sinful society, but of their own failings.
The term "age of accountability," though I personally don't like the wording, may in application fit.
that is very good!
Believe that we can trust in the very nature of God to have Him do what is best in these areas reserved unto Him alone!