Does the Holy Spirit draw the unsaved to Christ?

[agedman]

I have noticed more than once that some post of "the Holy Spirit drawing one for salvation" or some such as that.

I can't seem to find that anywhere in the Scriptures.

I see the work of the "Comforter" toward the world as:

John 16:7-11

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."​

Can anyone point to a Scripture that states the Holy Spirit draws the unbeliever to Christ?

There is plenty that I find the Holy Spirit does within, for, to ... the believer.

I may certainly be mistaken.

I do hope I am.

It would be very good to know that the Holy Spirit does the drawing.

However, if the Holy Spirit doesn't "draw a person to Christ," what does?

 

[plain_n_simple]

Jesus, the Father, the Holy Ghost, all the same spirit. Some are called, some seek, seeds are planted.

 

[convicted1]

Jesus, the Father, the Holy Ghost, all the same spirit. Some are called, some seek, seeds are planted.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: I was going to post the same thang...

 

[agedman]

Jesus, the Father, the Holy Ghost, all the same spirit. Some are called, some seek, seeds are planted.

Ah, but the work of the Holy Spirit is distinct from that of the Father or the Son.

Neither the Holy Spirit nor the Father died on the Cross.

The Word of God is Christ, but The Word is not the Holy Spirit.

Certainly all three are one (if you have seen me you have seen the Father) but there are absolutely distinct responsibilities.

Paul states that at the end of the Great White Throne Judgment, Jesus actually will bow humbly before the Father in acknowledgement of God's Sovereignty. Yet He is God.

Sound confusing? We are of such little brain - and I am fast loosing that which I would try to hold.

 

[convicted1]

Ah, but the work of the Holy Spirit is distinct from that of the Father or the Son.

Neither the Holy Spirit nor the Father died on the Cross.

The Word of God is Christ, but The Word is not the Holy Spirit.

Certainly all three are one (if you have seen me you have seen the Father) but there are absolutely distinct responsibilities.

Paul states that at the end of the Great White Throne Judgment, Jesus actually will bow humbly before the Father in acknowledgement of God's Sovereignty. Yet He is God.

Sound confusing? We are of such little brain - and I am fast loosing that which I would try to hold.

However, there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.

 

[agedman]

However, there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.

I do not disagree.

What proof is there that the Holy Spirit does the drawing of the unsaved?

I can find Christ drawing.

I can find God drawing near.

But where is this idea that the Holy Spirit draws the unsaved to be saved?

Is there a verse?

I was hoping I was wrong and just missing it.

 

[marke]

I have noticed more than once that some post of "the Holy Spirit drawing one for salvation" or some such as that.
I can't seem to find that anywhere in the Scriptures.
I see the work of the "Comforter" toward the world as:
John 16:7-11
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."​

Can anyone point to a Scripture that states the Holy Spirit draws the unbeliever to Christ?
There is plenty that I find the Holy Spirit does within, for, to ... the believer.
I may certainly be mistaken.
I do hope I am.
It would be very good to know that the Holy Spirit does the drawing.
However, if the Holy Spirit doesn't "draw a person to Christ," what does?

I believe a verse in John 12 declares that Jesus will draw all men unto Him. A verse in John 1 declares that Jesus will enlighten all men. Psalm 19 shows us that God witnesses to all men, and Rom. 1 and John 15 show that those who go to hell are without excuse because God has clearly revealed the truth to them and they knowingly rejected the truth of their own will to their own destruction.

 

[agedman]

I believe a verse in John 12 declares that Jesus will draw all men unto Him. A verse in John 1 declares that Jesus will enlighten all men. Psalm 19 shows us that God witnesses to all men, and Rom. 1 and John 15 show that those who go to hell are without excuse because God has clearly revealed the truth to them and they knowingly rejected the truth of their own will to their own destruction.

So, the Scriptures do not teach that the Holy Spirit draws a person to salvation?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

So, the Scriptures do not teach that the Holy Spirit draws a person to salvation?

They most certainly do, Aged Man. Do not trouble your aged head any further. I don't have time just now to write at length, but here is A. W. Pink on 'The Holy Spirit Drawing.'

http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Holy_Spirit/spirit_15.htm

This is an extract from his book, The Holy Spirit which is published by Baker (ISBN 0-8010-7041-4). Highly recommended.

I will try to write something myself a little later.

Steve

 

[glfredrick]

Ah, but the work of the Holy Spirit is distinct from that of the Father or the Son.

Neither the Holy Spirit nor the Father died on the Cross.

The Word of God is Christ, but The Word is not the Holy Spirit.

Certainly all three are one (if you have seen me you have seen the Father) but there are absolutely distinct responsibilities.

Paul states that at the end of the Great White Throne Judgment, Jesus actually will bow humbly before the Father in acknowledgement of God's Sovereignty. Yet He is God.

Sound confusing? We are of such little brain - and I am fast loosing that which I would try to hold.

It sounds like your line of reasoning is headed toward "tritheism." That is not an orthodox biblical position.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

There are a number of key verses which help, I think, to clarify the Bible's teaching on the work of the Spirit prior to conversion.

1 Cor 2:14. 'The natural man does not receive the things of the Sprit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.' The word translated 'natural' is psuchikos, literally 'soulish.' This means the man without the Spirit (Hendrickson et al). The things of God, which certainly include the Gospel of Christ (1:18), cannot be understood by people who do not have the Holy Spirit.

John 6:44. 'No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.' For the very reason given above, people will not come to Christ unless the Father draws them. How does He draw them? By sending the Spirit. It is the Spirit who, 'Will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement' (John 16:8). Sinners convicted of sin by the Spirit, and aware of their lack of righeousness (Matt 5:6), flee to the Son for salvation (cf. John 6:45).

1 Cor 12:3. 'Therefore I make known to you that......no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.' Obviously 'Jesus is Lord' is a very easy sentence to say, and I expect that if you put a pistol to Richard Dawkins' head, you could force him to say it, albeit through clenched teeth. Clearly, what the verse is saying that only those to whom the Spirit has come can say and mean that Jesus Christ is the Lord of their lives. They don't say, "Jesus is Lord" and then receive the Spirit.

I think there are other verses that could be used here, including the Trinitarian formula in 2Thes 2:13, but I hope these are enough to show that the Holy Spirit does indeed draw the unsaved to Christ.

So to answer the question that has been repeatedly asked, yes, there has to be an initial work of regeneration by the Spirit in a man before he can come to Christ. However, this work, if it is a genuine one, will inevitably bring that man to faith in Christ. I think it should be looked upon as a 'conception' which will lead to the New Birth in the fulness of time. That conception, however, should not be regarded as the same as the New Birth.

Take Zacchaeus. He had a burning desire to see Jesus. He didn't know Him, and probably not much about Him, but something was drawing him irresistibly to Christ, so much so that when he couldn't get a proper view of Jesus, he shinned up a tree. But it was not until after that, when Jesus had stopped and called him, and come into his house that Zacchaeus repented and called Jesus 'Lord' (Luke 19:8). What was drawing him was the Holy Spirit.

Steve

 

[Skandelon]

Something not mentioned yet is regarding the MEANS the Holy Spirit uses to draw men to himself.

Jesus said, "The words I speak to you are spirit and life..." (Jn 6)

Who inspired the writing of the gospel? Who perserved it for us in scripture? Who indwells the hearts of those who continue to proclaim this life-giving truth today?

THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Some attempt to separate the means from their source as if the spirit may work independently from the gospel or the Holy Spirit may work independently from His chosen means. Whatever the gospel accomplishes IS A WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!

 

[Greektim]

It sounds like your line of reasoning is headed toward "tritheism." That is not an orthodox biblical position.

That post wasn't tritheistic at all. Any person who draws a distinction between the personhood and position of the members of the trinity will appear that way, but that is the nature of the mystery.

 

[Rippon]

here is A. W. Pink on 'The Holy Spirit Drawing.'

http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Holy_Spirit/spirit_15.htm

This is an extract from his book, The Holy Spirit which is published by Baker (ISBN 0-8010-7041-4). Highly recommended.

I will try to write something myself a little later.

Steve

I am looking forward to opportunities to agree with you Steve. Here is one! A.W. Pink is excellent in this regard.

 

[convicted1]

There are a number of key verses which help, I think, to clarify the Bible's teaching on the work of the Spirit prior to conversion.

1 Cor 2:14. 'The natural man does not receive the things of the Sprit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.' The word translated 'natural' is psuchikos, literally 'soulish.' This means the man without the Spirit (Hendrickson et al). The things of God, which certainly include the Gospel of Christ (1:18), cannot be understood by people who do not have the Holy Spirit.

John 6:44. 'No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.' For the very reason given above, people will not come to Christ unless the Father draws them. How does He draw them? By sending the Spirit. It is the Spirit who, 'Will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement' (John 16:8). Sinners convicted of sin by the Spirit, and aware of their lack of righeousness (Matt 5:6), flee to the Son for salvation (cf. John 6:45).

1 Cor 12:3. 'Therefore I make known to you that......no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.' Obviously 'Jesus is Lord' is a very easy sentence to say, and I expect that if you put a pistol to Richard Dawkins' head, you could force him to say it, albeit through clenched teeth. Clearly, what the verse is saying that only those to whom the Spirit has come can say and mean that Jesus Christ is the Lord of their lives. They don't say, "Jesus is Lord" and then receive the Spirit.

I think there are other verses that could be used here, including the Trinitarian formula in 2Thes 2:13, but I hope these are enough to show that the Holy Spirit does indeed draw the unsaved to Christ.

So to answer the question that has been repeatedly asked, yes, there has to be an initial work of regeneration by the Spirit in a man before he can come to Christ. However, this work, if it is a genuine one, will inevitably bring that man to faith in Christ. I think it should be looked upon as a 'conception' which will lead to the New Birth in the fulness of time. That conception, however, should not be regarded as the same as the New Birth.

Take Zacchaeus. He had a burning desire to see Jesus. He didn't know Him, and probably not much about Him, but something was drawing him irresistibly to Christ, so much so that when he couldn't get a proper view of Jesus, he shinned up a tree. But it was not until after that, when Jesus had stopped and called him, and come into his house that Zacchaeus repented and called Jesus 'Lord' (Luke 19:8). What was drawing him was the Holy Spirit.

Steve

I agree with this with the exception of this:

"there has to be an initial work of regeneration by the Spirit in a man before he can come to Christ." But, I am sure you already knew that...:laugh:

 

[convicted1]

Something not mentioned yet is regarding the MEANS the Holy Spirit uses to draw men to himself.

Jesus said, "The words I speak to you are spirit and life..." (Jn 6)

Who inspired the writing of the gospel? Who perserved it for us in scripture? Who indwells the hearts of those who continue to proclaim this life-giving truth today?

THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Some attempt to separate the means from their source as if the spirit may work independently from the gospel or the Holy Spirit may work independently from His chosen means. Whatever the gospel accomplishes IS A WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!

I agree. Good post....

 

[JesusFan]

There are a number of key verses which help, I think, to clarify the Bible's teaching on the work of the Spirit prior to conversion.

1 Cor 2:14. 'The natural man does not receive the things of the Sprit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.' The word translated 'natural' is psuchikos, literally 'soulish.' This means the man without the Spirit (Hendrickson et al). The things of God, which certainly include the Gospel of Christ (1:18), cannot be understood by people who do not have the Holy Spirit.

John 6:44. 'No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.' For the very reason given above, people will not come to Christ unless the Father draws them. How does He draw them? By sending the Spirit. It is the Spirit who, 'Will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement' (John 16:8). Sinners convicted of sin by the Spirit, and aware of their lack of righeousness (Matt 5:6), flee to the Son for salvation (cf. John 6:45).

1 Cor 12:3. 'Therefore I make known to you that......no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.' Obviously 'Jesus is Lord' is a very easy sentence to say, and I expect that if you put a pistol to Richard Dawkins' head, you could force him to say it, albeit through clenched teeth. Clearly, what the verse is saying that only those to whom the Spirit has come can say and mean that Jesus Christ is the Lord of their lives. They don't say, "Jesus is Lord" and then receive the Spirit.

I think there are other verses that could be used here, including the Trinitarian formula in 2Thes 2:13, but I hope these are enough to show that the Holy Spirit does indeed draw the unsaved to Christ.

So to answer the question that has been repeatedly asked, yes, there has to be an initial work of regeneration by the Spirit in a man before he can come to Christ. However, this work, if it is a genuine one, will inevitably bring that man to faith in Christ. I think it should be looked upon as a 'conception' which will lead to the New Birth in the fulness of time. That conception, however, should not be regarded as the same as the New Birth.

Take Zacchaeus. He had a burning desire to see Jesus. He didn't know Him, and probably not much about Him, but something was drawing him irresistibly to Christ, so much so that when he couldn't get a proper view of Jesus, he shinned up a tree. But it was not until after that, when Jesus had stopped and called him, and come into his house that Zacchaeus repented and called Jesus 'Lord' (Luke 19:8). What was drawing him was the Holy Spirit.

Steve

Think that it is important to note that the HS has different aspects to His work among us, as he has a general work among the lost, and a specific work towards the saved...

I chose to see this as being a general/specif work, as the specific One brings those whom God has elected to life in Christ!

 

[JesusFan]

That post wasn't tritheistic at all. Any person who draws a distinction between the personhood and position of the members of the trinity will appear that way, but that is the nature of the mystery.

That was the treatise of my pastors Phd in NT Theology, the equality and subordination of the Trinity in Gospel of John!

 

[JesusFan]

Something not mentioned yet is regarding the MEANS the Holy Spirit uses to draw men to himself.

Jesus said, "The words I speak to you are spirit and life..." (Jn 6)

Who inspired the writing of the gospel? Who perserved it for us in scripture? Who indwells the hearts of those who continue to proclaim this life-giving truth today?

THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Some attempt to separate the means from their source as if the spirit may work independently from the gospel or the Holy Spirit may work independently from His chosen means. Whatever the gospel accomplishes IS A WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!

yes, but the Gospel and the HS Himself accomplish different things, dependent if it is involving the unsaved and to those who will be the saved!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am looking forward to opportunities to agree with you Steve. Here is one! A.W. Pink is excellent in this regard.

I just love reading Arthur Pinks stuff....what books would you fellows recommend? Nothing too heady please though....remember, I'm a novice.

Thanks