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Does the Holy Spirit Speak and Act Himself then?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
what is behind your thinking here?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. (1 Corinthians 12)
Trying to see if hark is right, and rest of us here wrong!
That is the soverign call of the Holy Spirit Himself right, as does not need Jesus to tell Him what to do?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Interesting in the passage in 1 Corinthians, we can have a very clear testimony to the Holy Trinity, or, as the Greek also allows, to the Deity of the Holy Spirit
In verse 3 Paul writes, "μη εν πνευματι αγιω" but by the Holy Spirit". In the next vere we have, "το δε αυτο πνευμα", "but the same Spirit", where the words refer back to the Holy Spirit just mentioned in verse 3. Then in verse 5 we read, "και ο αυτος κυριος", "but the same Lord", where it can grammitically refer back to the Holy Spirit. This is also true of verse 6, "εισιν ο δε αυτος εστιν θεος ο ενεργων τα παντα εν πασιν", " but it is the same God which worketh all in all". So, in this passage the Holy Spirit is called both Lord and God! there is no problem with this in the Greek grammar, and makes perfect sense.
In verse 3 Paul writes, "μη εν πνευματι αγιω" but by the Holy Spirit". In the next vere we have, "το δε αυτο πνευμα", "but the same Spirit", where the words refer back to the Holy Spirit just mentioned in verse 3. Then in verse 5 we read, "και ο αυτος κυριος", "but the same Lord", where it can grammitically refer back to the Holy Spirit. This is also true of verse 6, "εισιν ο δε αυτος εστιν θεος ο ενεργων τα παντα εν πασιν", " but it is the same God which worketh all in all". So, in this passage the Holy Spirit is called both Lord and God! there is no problem with this in the Greek grammar, and makes perfect sense.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
as the Holy Spirit is also Almighty God, He acts on His own, and sometimes on behalf of the Father and Jesus
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
what did they say about this?
Hark
Well-Known Member
Ask Jesus.
James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
This thread is supposed to be in response of your theology on the Holy Spirit?
Hark
Well-Known Member
This thread is Yeshua1's response to the scripture in what He is saying about the Holy Spirit as I am reading it plainly as saying.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV
In all Bible versions, the Holy Spirit does not speak on His own authority, or initiative, and the NIV understood that to mean He can only speak what He hears.
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV
Compare what other bible versions are saying what John 16:13 means.
John 16:13The Spirit of truth will come and guide you in all truth. He will not speak His own words to you; He will speak what He hears, revealing to you the things to come .. The Voice
John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. ESV
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. ASV
So the Holy Spirit cannot speak from Himself but speak what He hears as the words are not His own words but from Christ Jesus as we read on in the KJV.
John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. KJV
That which the Holy Spirit gives to us, comes from Jesus Christ. All that the Holy Spirit does, the Holy Spirit gives that credit & glory to the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
The fruits of the Spirit aka the fruits of righteousness comes from Jesus Christ as Jesus Christ is the One that will finish His work in us to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. KJV
So whenever scripture testify to the Spirit speaking, it is under the understanding of how Jesus said He will speak in the first place as not from Himself as if they are His own words but speaking the words from Christ as all that He does is per Jesus Christ as the Head of the body & our Good Shepherd & Bridegroom to the glory of God the Father.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Have you read 1 Corinthians 12 where the Holy Spirit works on His own Authority? See #3
Hark
Well-Known Member
Putting your scripture out of the quote box for easier reading.
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
Interjection for the last part of the verse in the KJV is to profit withal to the body of Christ rather than for the common good which is vague.
1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. KJV.
Continuing in your Bible version which you did not identify to what Bible version that was;
" 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. (1 Corinthians 12)
Seeing how John 16:13-15 came before Paul's epistles to the Corinthians, it is best to apply that to 1 Corinthians 12:11 to discern Who that "he" is as "he wills". And since Jesus is Lord per 1 Corinthians 12:3 per the Holy Ghost, if one wonders who that Lord is and who is that as "he wills" is. the Holy Spirit would answer that question from Jesus as Lord & say Jesus Christ.
Hark
Well-Known Member
Yes. Just posted on your post in post # 13.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
It is very clear from the passage in 1 Corinthians that the Holy Spirit Acts according to His own will. There is no other way to understand this
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
So your argument falls
Hark
Well-Known Member
I am addressing your Bible version by His grace & by His help;
Look at how we say Who is Lord but by the Holy Ghost in verse 3.
Then the the varieties of services is from the same Lord as in Jesus is that Lord.
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
Therefore the gifts of the Spirit are in serving the Lord Jesus Christ. in according to His will in how he divides the gifts of the Spirit as He wills the Spirit to do.
If you consider post # 11 for how the Spirit ministers, then the "he" is Jesus as Lord for dividing as he wills as Jesus is Lord as per by the Holy Ghost.
Hark
Well-Known Member
Let us put it this way, if we agree that scripture cannot go against scripture then your application of 1 Corinthians 12 is wrong because you have the Holy Spirit acting independently from Jesus Christ and yet Jesus sad He cannot do that per post # 11 of explaining the truth as shared in ALL Bible version in John 16:13-15.
So all I can ask you to do is to ask Jesus because scripture cannot go against scripture so "dividing as he wills" is to serving Jesus Christ as He wills for the Holy Spirit would say Jesus is Lord.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
What exactly are you trying to prove from your arguments?
God is one being in 3 person's. They each function in accordance with the whole. One is not less than the other nor is one acting independent of the whole.
Romans 8:26-27
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Romans 8:26-27
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.