Does the Holy Spirit Speak and Act Himself then?

[Hark]

What exactly are you trying to prove from your arguments?

Answering the Question of this Thread.

Answer; the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself nor act for Himself since all that He does is in the service of Christ Jesus as that Spirit of Christ. He cannot be speaking nor acting as the Spirit of the Spirit for that would make Him cease as being the Spirit of Christ. Therefore as the Spirit of Christ, all that the Holy Spirit does is in according to the will of Christ Jesus, the Head of the Church as He is the author & finisher of our faith per Hebrews 12:1-2 & the One that shall finish His work in us per Philippians 1:6 as all the fruits of righteousness are from Jesus Christ to the glory of God the Father per Philippians 1:11.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Answering the Question of this Thread.

Answer; the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself nor act for Himself since all that He does is in the service of Christ Jesus as that Spirit of Christ. He cannot be speaking nor acting as the Spirit of the Spirit for that would make Him cease as being the Spirit of Christ. Therefore as the Spirit of Christ, all that the Holy Spirit does is in according to the will of Christ Jesus, the Head of the Church as He is the author & finisher of our faith per Hebrews 12:1-2 & the One that shall finish His work in us per Philippians 1:6 as all the fruits of righteousness are from Jesus Christ to the glory of God the Father per Philippians 1:11.

are you saying that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are one and the same Person? Do you not believe in the Holy Trinty, of One Godhead and Three Distinct Persons? Do you think that the Father and Jesus Christ are also the same Person? Your reasoning above is very much faulty, as you don't seem to grasp the workings between the Persons in the Godhead.

 

[Hark]

are you saying that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are one and the same Person?

No. I am going on what Jesus has said as clearly to mean to me.

Do you not believe in the Holy Trinty, of One Godhead and Three Distinct Persons?

I believe in the Triune God, as 3 Witnesses within the One God. Since you believe there are Three Distinct Persons, then there is 3 distinct roles to each of them.

Do you think that the Father and Jesus Christ are also the same Person?

No.

Your reasoning above is very much faulty, as you don't seem to grasp the workings between the Persons in the Godhead.

You cannot prove that until you address the scripture per post # 11 to explain what Jesus meant in all those Bible versions about John 16:13 before you can address what you say post # 13 as being wrong, because post # 11 is why post # 13 is not wrong.

You need to ask Jesus Christ at that throne of grace to confirm or reprove the word shown to you, because just saying I fail to grasp it without reproving it to me is to me your failure to grasp His words and therefore my words.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Since you believe there are Three Distinct Persons

do you believe that The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are indeed Three distinct Persons, in the One Godhead? And not Three "manifestations" of the One God?

 

[Hark]

do you believe that The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are indeed Three distinct Persons, in the One Godhead?

Yes

[/QUOTE] And not Three "manifestations" of the One God?[/QUOTE]

I do not believe that.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes

And not Three "manifestations" of the One God?[/QUOTE]

I do not believe that.[/QUOTE]

then you should be more clear when you write here

 

[Hark]

And not Three "manifestations" of the One God?

I do not believe that.

then you should be more clear when you write here[/QUOTE]

You are right. Sorry. Thanks for asking for clarity.

I do not believe there are Three "manifestations" of the One God.

I believe that The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are indeed Three distinct Persons,

 

[Hark]

@SavedByGrace

Have you discerned with Him post #11 in regards to the topic of the thread yet?

 

[SavedByGrace]

@SavedByGrace

Have you discerned with Him post #11 in regards to the topic of the thread yet?

I don't get what you are saying here?

 

[Hark]

I don't get what you are saying here?

This thread is Yeshua1's response to the scripture in what He is saying about the Holy Spirit as I am reading it plainly as saying.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV

In all Bible versions, the Holy Spirit does not speak on His own authority, or initiative, and the NIV understood that to mean He can only speak what He hears.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

Compare what other bible versions are saying what John 16:13 means.

John 16:13The Spirit of truth will come and guide you in all truth. He will not speak His own words to you; He will speak what He hears, revealing to you the things to come .. The Voice

John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. ESV

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. ASV

So the Holy Spirit cannot speak from Himself but speak what He hears as the words are not His own words but from Christ Jesus as we read on in the KJV.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. KJV

That which the Holy Spirit gives to us, comes from Jesus Christ. All that the Holy Spirit does, the Holy Spirit gives that credit & glory to the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

The fruits of the Spirit aka the fruits of righteousness comes from Jesus Christ as Jesus Christ is the One that will finish His work in us to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. KJV

So whenever scripture testify to the Spirit speaking, it is under the understanding of how Jesus said He will speak in the first place as not from Himself as if they are His own words but speaking the words from Christ as all that He does is per Jesus Christ as the Head of the body & our Good Shepherd & Bridegroom to the glory of God the Father.

 

[John of Japan]

Trying to see if hark is right, and rest of us here wrong!

You can safely ignore Hark's "teaching" (doctrine) of the Holy Spirit. His pneumatology is bizarre and idiosyncratic. He completely ignored my post asking for someone--anyone--who agreed with him. (Well, I did say no Internet theology, please. ). I've read a lot on the Holy Spirit, and never heard of anything like his ideas. I have purposefully studied every single mention of the Holy Spirit in the Bible, and guess what--I never even one time thought what Hark is saying!

Hark believes we should never pray to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God. Therefore, in an obvious logical syllogism, according to Hark we are sinning when we pray to God. I find that totally ridiculous. I find it to be false doctrine.

 

[Yeshua1]

Interesting in the passage in 1 Corinthians, we can have a very clear testimony to the Holy Trinity, or, as the Greek also allows, to the Deity of the Holy Spirit

In verse 3 Paul writes, "μη εν πνευματι αγιω" but by the Holy Spirit". In the next vere we have, "το δε αυτο πνευμα", "but the same Spirit", where the words refer back to the Holy Spirit just mentioned in verse 3. Then in verse 5 we read, "και ο αυτος κυριος", "but the same Lord", where it can grammitically refer back to the Holy Spirit. This is also true of verse 6, "εισιν ο δε αυτος εστιν θεος ο ενεργων τα παντα εν πασιν", " but it is the same God which worketh all in all". So, in this passage the Holy Spirit is called both Lord and God! there is no problem with this in the Greek grammar, and makes perfect sense.

He is both Lord and God, and when Paul calls Him the Spirit of Jesus, is not saying that He is same person as Jesus, or somehow just a force Jesus uses!

 

[Yeshua1]

as the Holy Spirit is also Almighty God, He acts on His own, and sometimes on behalf of the Father and Jesus

And He can speak and do on His own!

 

[Yeshua1]

This thread is supposed to be in response of your theology on the Holy Spirit?

Hark seems to hold that the Holy Spirit cannot do anything apart from what Jesus tells and commands Him to do!

 

[SavedByGrace]

And He can speak and do on His own!

"acts" means everything

 

[Yeshua1]

Ask Jesus.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Who shows us the truths of the scriptures? Its the illumination of the Holy Spirit, not Jesus!

 

[Yeshua1]

Have you read 1 Corinthians 12 where the Holy Spirit works on His own Authority? See #3

The Holy Spirit is the One to decide who and why spiritual gifts are distributed!

 

[Yeshua1]

Putting your scripture out of the quote box for easier reading.

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

Interjection for the last part of the verse in the KJV is to profit withal to the body of Christ rather than for the common good which is vague.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. KJV.

Continuing in your Bible version which you did not identify to what Bible version that was;

" 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. (1 Corinthians 12)

Seeing how John 16:13-15 came before Paul's epistles to the Corinthians, it is best to apply that to 1 Corinthians 12:11 to discern Who that "he" is as "he wills". And since Jesus is Lord per 1 Corinthians 12:3 per the Holy Ghost, if one wonders who that Lord is and who is that as "he wills" is. the Holy Spirit would answer that question from Jesus as Lord & say Jesus Christ.

Is Jesus superior to the Holy Ghost, is Jesus His Lord then?

 

[Yeshua1]

It is very clear from the passage in 1 Corinthians that the Holy Spirit Acts according to His own will. There is no other way to understand this

He is fully God, whose will greater then His own?

 

[Yeshua1]

What exactly are you trying to prove from your arguments?

That the Holy Spirit is to hark not quite fully God?