Does The New Testament Authorize

No they wouldn't. 9 or 10 are repeated in the NT for NT believers.

Is British law absolute because we don't follow it here? Of course not. That's a silly argument. So in the same way, Israelite law is not obsolete just because we aren't in Israel.

The Bible makes clear that there is no distinction. If you keep one, you must keep it all.

 

Which part of Pss 149 and 150 address the church? Remember your claim had to do with worship in the church. So I was curious your claim.

Secondly, what makes the worship service you describe above wrong? I don't see anything in there that contradicts the plain teaching of the Psalms or of any other Scripture. Perhaps you could be more specific.

 

Psalms 149 and 150 address saints. Us. They tell us how to worship God, and dance is a part of that. So when you get together with the saints of God to worship, no matter if it be the local church or some other function set aside for that purpose, Psalms 149 and 150 give us instruction on how to worship God.

 

They actually address worship in the temple in the theocracy, which is different than the church.

I am not saying that the Psalms are useless for worship. I was merely pointing out that we first must use the text properly, before drawing conclusions from it about what we should do.

I think the burden of proof is on those who want to use dance in worship to tell us what kind of dance they are using, and what point it serves. How similar is it to OT dance in worship? Why is is that the NT says nothing about it? Gives no examples of it? Isn't that striking? It should be, if it isn't already.

 

It really makes no difference whether or not it was under a theocracy in the temple. Praise and worship to God has no such barriers. Worship is for all time and the instructions as to what id pleasing and acceptable to Him are written in His word. How can anyone not allow this form of worship, which God ordained, in the assembly of His saints?

We ask, "Well, where in the NT does it instruct such a thing? Where's the evidence of dancing in the church?" We could ask the same question regarding the functions we follow today. Where does it come from? Why do we do it? Why is it acceptable -- All the while dis regarding or refusing the clear instruction from God Himself.

 

Really?? So do you offer daily sacrifices to God? Of course not. Do you go to Jerusalem to worship? Of course not. You recognize that it does matter. You just didn't think through that, I imagine.

I tend to think we should ask those questions about everything we do in church. I don't think we should disregard any clear instruction from the Lord to us.

 

We are talking about praise and worship, are we not? Of course we do not offer sacrifices. The Bible is clear on that. It is also clear about how saints are to worship God.

I agree.

 

Yes, but the Bible is clear on sacrifices being offered from the place it is clear on dancing. Yet you reject one and try to keep the other. That is troublesome.

I think the dance in OT worship was a dance of celebration, a spontaneous eruption of physical expression at the greatness of God. It was not the choreographed shows with suductive movements, and the like that seem to be the norm of "dancing before the Lord" today. I fail to see how watching someone slither across the stage is edifying. Can you explain that?

 

It's not troublesome when you understand that worship to God doesn't end and is not confined to any one system or covenant while sacrifice is. There are still ways of God that do not end. I don't believe that you do not comprehend somethin so simple. You're prentending to not get it! C'mon, brother.

No one would advocate slithering across the stage or seductive movements. That surely isn't proper or edifying. Furthermore, I don't believe that it's engaged for our own entertainment. It is done as worship and praise to God.

 

I am not pretending at all. I fully understand your point, and that is why I am speaking out. You are accepting parts of the OT you like and rejecting parts you don't. You are failing to make a distinction between worship in the OT and worship in the NT. It is not as stark as some distinctions.

I think perhaps you might need to see more "dance worship." What have I have seen has no propositional or Scriptural truth attached to it. It is suggestive in many ways and immodest in almost every way. It has nothing to do with God.

In the OT, I think that dancing was a spontaneous eruption of joy. That is not what we see in churches today. I was at a large church where some spontaneous dancing was going on. It was extremely suggestive as females raise their hands about their head and swiveled their hips. I am quite sure they weren't swiveling their hips to the joy of a propositional text. It wasn't dancing to the Lord.

Heb 12:25 describes our worship are reverent. And that is too often missed in this pseudo worship services that many have that are all about entertainment and how we feel about something.

 

It's not a matter of what I "like" or "don't like." If anyone is picking and choosing, it is YOU. You've decided to leave out the dancing, but willing to take the rest. Now that, my friend, is blatant "accepting parts you like and rejecting parts you don't."

The church in Corinth was way off in many things, but that doesn't silence or withhold correction. Just because some foul it up doesn't justify claiming that it shouldn't be practiced.

Again, that does not nullify instruction from God to dance as a part of worship.

Perhaps, but still, this doesn't give you or anyone else license to silence nor stay what God has instructed in His word.

raise:raise:raise:

 

2 Peter 3:15-16
[15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

1 Tim 5:18
[18] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Which is Deut. 25:4
[4] Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

I don't see where either said the other ones writings are scripture? Peter said Paul wrote you a long letter (epistle=long letter) not he wrote you letters that in 325 AD would be considered for cannonization or scripture.

Don't take me wrong, I do belive the bible is scripture but was simply making a point that references to scripture is referring to OT since there was no NT at that time.

 

Come on, now. Did you even read that???

Think about it ...

... our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Clearly, Paul's writings are "hard to understand" as are the "other Scriptures." That is clear proof that Peter considered Paul's writings as Scripture. Otherwise, he would not have said "the rest."

For the scripture saith,... The labourer is worthy of his reward.

That is a direct quotation of Matt 10:10 and Luke 10:7, and it is said to be "what the Scripture saith."

How much more clear does it get? Two direct citations that call extensive passages of the NT Scripture. That's all I need.

 

Not at all. You are picking part of the OT as normative and part of it as not. I don't agree with that.

If you are willing to "dance" like the OT, then fine. I don't have any issues with that. BUt I will guarantee you that very few, if any, are dancing like the OT today.

But the fact that he gives that command in the context of temple worship and not to the church carries far more weight than you are allowing, perhaps because you are trying to justify it.

On what NT basis do you allow dancing in the church worship? There is clear instruction for singing, preaching and teaching, meeting together, and giving. I see no evidence at all for dancing. Our worship is to be reverent.

I am not doing any such thing. To to contrary, I am sayign we should practice everything God has commanded for his NT church.

 

Yes you do. You're just too stubborn or prideful to admit it.

Okay, so you agree that dancing is a part of worshipping God. Good.

It is justified because worship to God is not confined to the OT. It is not confined to the church meeting either.

See my previous reply. We do things in the church that are not biblically based, yet we question something so simple as to whether or not we should "permit" dancing as a part of worship, which GOD has instructed.

And I'm saying dancing should be a part of worship to God based on His Word.

 

Way to take this conversation into the gutter. Real nice.

I have never disagreed with that in the OT context, nor in its proper usage.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this thread about corporate worship? That's what the OP says.

I think you are confusing categories of things. The use of a sound system or air conditioning is far different than the elements of worship.

And I am saying that you have yet to show that from the teaching about the NT church.

 

You continue to claim that I'm "picking and choosing" when the fact is that there is instruction in the OT that is useful, being God's ordained way and what He has written as to what is pleasing to Him, while you know yourself it's true. That's either pride or stubborness. We've all fallen prey to pride at some point in our lives.

You've set up a question that you thought would prove your point (sacrifices) and it didn't hold water. You've said dancing serves no purpose in public worship, but then you turn around and say "if it's like the dancing in the OT, then fine." How and when did you come to such a conclusion? What makes it "fine" Pastor Larry?

One might surmise that you're bickering just for the sake of bickering.

But you have stated dancing as worship serves no purpose in public worship, then back-peddled by saying dancing in public worship if fine if it's like the OT. What makes it fine, Pastor Larry?

Is the 149 & 150th Psalm not instructing corporate worship? Yes, it is.

I 'm not confusing anything. Worship to God, who never changes, is instructed in the 149th & 150th Psalm. And, my point is, is that we have clear instruction about what pleases and whta is acceptable to God while worshipping and people question as to whether or not it's applicable to the church.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And

Psalm 149 & 150, which instructs worshippers of God to dance. If you or anyone else cannot come to terms with something SO SIMPLE, then so be it.