Does The New Testament Teach Irresistible Grace?

Morris, You are quick to use scriptures taken out of their context, so I will answer your questions with the same scriptures in their context. The scriptures speak for themselves to those who have ears to hear. Emphasis and parens are mine.

 

How can I be wrong it's scripture man.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. Eph 2:8-9.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]No doubt it is scripture! Your interpretation is wrong, you have missed the object of the passage which is BEING SAVED!

 

By grace.

john.

 

For it is by grace you have been saved...

 

NO strawman. Pure reasoning!

If grace were irresistible and if grace saves (ephesians 2:8,9), and Grace is upon all of the creation because it comes from the creator. Then It is universal, and inescapable. No created being can escape it. NO STRAWMAN!

I know you can't deal with that because you are calvinized.

 

"Saved" is what Paul is speaking of, therefore the Gift of God is us who have faith being saved!

Deal with it Johnp, You have not honestly done so!

 

Ahh you got me again man. Tell you what I'll deal with it.

For it is not by faith you are saved. (Eph 2:8-9 revised version.)

Sorry again Wes boy I didn't mean to upset you. Is that better?

john.

 

Your honesty is severely lacking john boy! If you deal with your family with the same honesty, you will find yourself alone soon if not already.

 

Your honesty is severely lacking john boy! If you deal with your family with the same honesty, you will find yourself alone soon if not already. </font>[/QUOTE]I think you owe Johnp an apology. That was uncalled for. Those who bring one's family into the debate have clearly lost it...unless it is just an attempt at being funny like asking if their mother hated them or something.

 

Hello Wes.

I'll take to mean I'm honest through wes-speak!

Thanks for the advise I could do with a bit of peace and quite. I invite yer round for beers if it succeeds!


Hello KJ.

I think Wes was one of those that I have said can call me what they want as long as they don't call me late for dinner.
No apology is needed.

Not entirely I fear.

Did she?

john.

 

I did not bring john's family into the debate, I brought john's honesty into the debate by pointing out to him that if he applies the same level of honesty to his family that he applies here in this debate, he will soon find himself alone!

The focus was entirely upon John, and not his family!

 

Great response to KJ, Johnp.

 

Wes this is the same point you always bring up. Then one or more of us must take the time to show you that if it is grace that God Gives, or Love that allows us to use Gods grace, or any number of ways you want to see this...in the end, this is what happens.

1) Man does not know of the grace of God.
2) God reaches out to him..sharing His love in grace
3) God does show grace for no reason other then He loves us.
4) This is when..at that very moment....not before...but when God reaches out to us...this is when we understand...this is when we are saved.

if it is Gods grace that comes as some say...then call it grace
if we already have grace..but God shows us his love...and then we understand Gods grace...ok..call it love
if grace belongs to no one...but only used by us...as we express to another...then it is God that express grace to us 1st

anyway you say it...

it...or something COMES FROM GOD 1st...then we understand...then we are saved

Why fight over this wes?

Face it wes...salvation comes FROM GOD.

you attach election, grace, choosen, and many other words found in the bible and twist them to mean...freewill of man....not found in the Bible

is there something wrong with this picture?

 

Hello Wes.

Well I see I must apologise to you Wes because I thought you brought my dishonesty into the debate. But it is not dishonesty that causes a breakdown in marriage but the getting caught. HaHa!
But then if you did mean my honesty then I know that is much more offensive and so does my wife. We use it all the time in our internal discussions.

john.

 

I specifically saw you mention his family. Don't lie. And if you don't want me constantly correcting everything you do, maybe you should refrain from doing it to me. Oh...and...don't shout at me.

 

"I brought john's honesty into the debate by pointing out to him that if he applies the same level of honesty to his family that he applies here in this debate, he will soon find himself alone!"

I thought you were charging him with "dishonesty". Now you mention honesty? Which is it dude?

 

Wes this is the same point you always bring up. Then one or more of us must take the time to show you that if it is grace that God Gives, or Love that allows us to use Gods grace, or any number of ways you want to see this...in the end, this is what happens.

1) Man does not know of the grace of God.
2) God reaches out to him..sharing His love in grace
3) God does show grace for no reason other then He loves us.
4) This is when..at that very moment....not before...but when God reaches out to us...this is when we understand...this is when we are saved.

if it is Gods grace that comes as some say...then call it grace
if we already have grace..but God shows us his love...and then we understand Gods grace...ok..call it love
if grace belongs to no one...but only used by us...as we express to another...then it is God that express grace to us 1st

anyway you say it...

it...or something COMES FROM GOD 1st...then we understand...then we are saved

Why fight over this wes?

Face it wes...salvation comes FROM GOD.

you attach election, grace, choosen, and many other words found in the bible and twist them to mean...freewill of man....not found in the Bible

is there something wrong with this picture? </font>[/QUOTE]Why yes there is!
Grace cannot be given from one being to another.
Faith cannot be given from one being to another.
Love cannot be given from one being to another.

Love is how God sees man.
Grace is how God behaves toward man.
Faith in God is how some, but not all, men respond to God's love and Grace.

Man's saving faith comes from knowledge provided in God's Word.
Grace is not what saves. It is not "a what" that saves, it is a WHO and God is Who saves.

God saves ONLY those who have faith in Him!
No one is saved by election! Election is not a salvific power. Election is a human perception of what God does with his creation.

 

For it is by grace you have been saved...

 

I specifically saw you mention his family. Don't lie. And if you don't want me constantly correcting everything you do, maybe you should refrain from doing it to me. Oh...and...don't shout at me. </font>[/QUOTE]KJ, I do not know whether or not Johnp has family, I do not know his family, I did not mention any names that would identify anyone to John in a familial relationship. I used the term 'family' in a quite generic manner implying that "if he has a family, and uses the same level of honesty to them that he would soon be alone".

I did not bring john's personal family into this debate.

If you can't keep up, take notes!

 

This is like Eli's family to you isn't it?