1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Does the New Testament teach us that we can use instrumental music in worship

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by God's Word is TRUTH, Jul 15, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 3 of 16
  1. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    11,539
    Likes Received:
    1,010
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Dustin,

    I am a church pianist. This fall, I will have been one for 30 years. I began when I was 15.

    It has been a source of joy and of stress. There have been times that I wanted to quit, but God wouldn't let me. He called me to that position and for the time being, He will not let me leave. I have have to obey Him and He has richly blessed me for staying and I play for His glory.

    I know that you will completely discredit my testimony, but I don't mind. I know that people who believe that instruments in the church are sinful are firmly rooted in that belief and cannot be moved.

    So, I am not trying to move you. I believe you are incorrect in your understanding of what constitutes worship and can be involved in worship.

    I also believe that you are incorrect in your discrediting of the Old Testament. David not only said to play instruments in praise of God, but to play skillfully. (Psalm 33:3) This means that people who play pianos, organs, guitars, or whatever should present their best to the Lord and play for His glory.

    I'm glad that Jesus didn't discredit the Old Testament. When the devil tempted Him in the wilderness, Jesus' weapon was God's Word. He didn't get into an argument with the devil, but He simpy quoted God's Word. And all three times, He quoted the book of Dueteronomy.

    As for the New Testament not mentioning musical instruments in the church, why do you assume that it means the silence on the subject means there were NO musical instruments and that is must apparently mean that having instruments must be a sin?

    How do you know for sure that there were no tambourines or stringed instruments? And why do you believe that not mentioning them means they are evil?

    The New Testament also does not mention hymn books or Sunday School or choirs or a whole host of things.

    Are hymn books evil? Are church choirs evil?

    You are making not only a connection between silence and condemnation, but you have made them the same word with the same literal meaning.

    I know that nothing I say will sway your opinion. And again, I'm not trying to.

    But know this, nothing you say has swayed anyone here. And, as for me, only God can tell me what to do with the gift that He gave me. He could take it away from me in a snap or He could continue to use me. It's all His anyway to decide.
     
    #41 Scarlett O., Jul 17, 2006
  2. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,459
    Likes Received:
    1
    Amen, Scarlett!

    I've been a church pianist for 24 years, beginning when I was 13. You will never convince me that God does not accept worship from people who love him using talents that He gave them to play musical instruments skillfully.

    First, your so-called Scriptural arguments have already been refuted.

    Second, you are the one asserting that instrumental music in worship isn't pleasing to God. Thus, the burden of proof is on you.
     
    #42 ccrobinson, Jul 17, 2006
  3. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    And as Christians, the proof must come from God's word.

    BTW, since you don't believe Heaven is a physical place, what about Hell?
     
    #43 tinytim, Jul 17, 2006
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    80
    10 reasons why a pitch pipe is wrong in worship


    1) There is no command in the New Testament for Christians to use pitch pipes in the worship of the church.

    2) There is no example in the New Testament of a church, apostle, teacher, or any Christian ever using a pitch pipe in worship.

    3) It is not of faith, therefore it is sin (Romans 14:23).

    4) It is going beyond that which is written (1 Corinthians 4:6).

    5) It violates the command to "sing" (Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16).

    6) Singing is commanded; the use of a pitch pipe is an "addition" to this command, and therefore it is wrong (Rev. 22:18).

    7) The use of a pitch pipe in worship to God is a failure to "abide in the doctrine of Christ" (2 John 9).

    8) Those who use a pitch pipe in worship "reject" the authority of Christ (Matthew 28:19; Luke 6:46).

    9) It cannot be done "in the name" (or by the authority) of Jesus (1 Corinthians 4:6; Colossians 3:17).

    10) From the above evidences, the use of a pitch pipe in worship is obviously not from Heaven, so it must be from men (Matthew 21:25).

    From the above Scriptures, we can now "clearly" answer this question, "Can Christians use a pitch pipe in worship and still be pleasing to God?"


    In Christian Love,

    Roger
     
    #44 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jul 17, 2006
  5. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    22,016
    Likes Received:
    487
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The pitchpipe doth spew forth tones dissonant to the untuned sackbut, therefore it is an abomination. Thou shalt use digital tuners, which doth not cause painful reverberations in the dome of the listener.
     
    #45 Bro. Curtis, Jul 17, 2006
  6. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    2
    Eph 5:19, Colossians 3:16: Paul encourages believers to worship with "psalms, hymns and spiritual songs..."

    By definition, Psalms are sung with musical instruments.
     
    #46 Tom Butler, Jul 17, 2006
  7. SBCPreacher

    SBCPreacher Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Wait a minute. Digital tuners aren't mentioned in the NT. I guess they're out of bounds.
     
    #47 SBCPreacher, Jul 17, 2006
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    80
    I wonder if Dustin drives a car to get to his place of worship?
     
    #48 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jul 17, 2006
  9. rbell

    rbell Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know what an "untuned sackbut" is, but it sounds really funny. :laugh: :laugh:

    Thanks for the laff.
     
    #49 rbell, Jul 17, 2006
  10. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    22,016
    Likes Received:
    487
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Sackbut (var. Sacbutt; Sackbutt; Sagbutt), a brass instrument from the Renaissance and Baroque Eras, is an ancestor of the modern trombone. The name is derived from the Middle French sacquer and bouter ("push" and "pull") and the term survives in numerous English spelling variations including sacbut, sagbut, shagbolt and shakbusshe. In France, the instrument was called sacqueboute; in Germany, Posaune, and in Italy, trombone. The term sackbut is used to differentiate the historic instrument from its modern counterpart. Increasing interest in authentic performance in recent years has brought many trombonists to the sackbut.

    [​IMG]

    I agree, sackbut is a funny name.
     
    #50 Bro. Curtis, Jul 17, 2006
  11. Gib

    Gib Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    27,256
    Likes Received:
    14
    It sounds like something that happens to a quarterback.
     
    #51 Gib, Jul 17, 2006
  12. rbell

    rbell Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Go up, thou untuned sackbut..."

    Has a nice ring to it...
     
    #52 rbell, Jul 17, 2006
  13. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    But not in the church!!!!!:smilewinkgrin:

    Bro Tony
     
    #53 Bro Tony, Jul 17, 2006
  14. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    22,016
    Likes Received:
    487
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What was this thread about ?
     
    #54 Bro. Curtis, Jul 17, 2006
  15. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    God hates musical instruments!

    Bro Tony
     
    #55 Bro Tony, Jul 17, 2006
  16. God's Word is TRUTH

    God's Word is TRUTH New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    I already posted some of this earlier but some people keep asking me questions I have already answered.

    Do you really think that God needs to make a big book of don'ts, if He did it would be so big we couldn't carry it around. plus in the new testament God tells us to SING, to add or take away from that would be a sin.

    do you think we could add some cake and ice cream to the Lord's Supper. I hope you would say no. But I could go on and say that the bible doesn't tell us that we can't add it. thats where the "he didn't say that we couldn't" logic fails.

    I still ask that someone would site one verse of scripture in the new testament which authorizes instrumental music in worship to the almighty God.

    Here is a good article on why the psalms don't authorize instruments of music in Christian worship.


    DO THE PSALMS AUTHORIZE
    THE USE OF INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC
    IN NEW TESTAMENT WORSHIP?

    Copyright © 2001, by John Lankford, Fort Smith, Arkansas

    Here are the facts of the case:


    The scriptures of the very early church were the Old Testament. The New Testament writings were not in existence from the start. (example: Acts 17: 2,3 + 2 Timothy 3:15)

    Psalm 150, by inspiration, encourages and names instruments of music to be used in praising God. Yet, the early church under the guidance of the Apostles--having these very scriptures before their eyes--did not use them to worship God but just simply sang instead.

    The acappella practice was so standard that it took about 400 years for someone to change it ("A Cappella Singing" by Dr. William M. Green, Professor of classical languages, University of California, Berkeley, Encyclopedia of Early Christianity, by E. Ferguson)
    The above facts prove beyond reasonable doubt that :
    The Psalms are not a "worship manual" for specifics about New Covenant worship.
    New Covenant worship has its own design for music (see: Ephesians 5:19, Hebrews 13:15) and it is acappella music.
    ***To counter the above, one would have to negate the 3 facts (which cannot be done). Hence, to use instrumental music in spite of the facts would be equivalent to being guided by our wants and desires rather than hard evidence.

    I hope that we all drop our bias opinions and search for the truth as set forth for us in the bible.

    In Christian Love,

    Dustin
     
    #56 God's Word is TRUTH, Jul 17, 2006
  17. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    1
    That sounds great. However, once you say heaven is not a physical place, you have no hope of accomplishing that. IMO, you have lost all credibility in this discussion. Pastor Larry gave you solid answers on your OP and yet you did nothing but ignore it.
     
    #57 PastorSBC1303, Jul 17, 2006
  18. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are several problems with your further attempt at support. 1) We don't konw that the early church was completely accapella, and if they were, we don't know why. It is foolish to draw conclusions from things unstated. 2) Eph 5:10 and Heb 13:15 offer nothing in the way of a condemnation of instruments in NT worship in the church. It specifically does not say that.

    The Psalms can only be rejected if you think God has changed. I don't think he has. Therefore, the instruments in the Psalms give unmistakeable and irrefutable evidence that instruments are acceptable in worship to God.

    I hope that you will drop your biased opinion and simply look at what the Scriptures say.
     
    #58 Pastor Larry, Jul 17, 2006
  19. God's Word is TRUTH

    God's Word is TRUTH New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0

    So i have the burden of proof , okay so I will give you God's truth.

    First I have given you 10 reasons that no one has really refuted, i don't know about you but i don't drive my car or get on the internet to worship God.

    Second in the great commission Jesus tells his disiples to go forth and teach all nations to observe all things that I,Jesus, have commanded you. Jesus didn't command us to use instrumental music.

    If you would answer some questions for me that would be great.

    do you think that we can add some cake and ice cream to the lord's supper?
    do you think we could baptize by sprikling or pouring instead of immersion?
    do you think we can baptize infants?

    there is a good story in the old testament of some guys who offered fire that God didn't commanded them to use, and God killed them. (Lev. 10:1-2)

    say i give you 20 dollars to go to the store and I tell you to get a bag of bread, and you do. But you also get some candy and coke. now I didn't tell you to get candy and coke. did you not break my commandment to get bread.

    God tells us that He wants us to sing so that is what we should do, we should honor his commandment and sing to him, nothing more nothing less.

    may we all look to seek God's truth

    In Christian Love,

    Dustin
     
    #59 God's Word is TRUTH, Jul 17, 2006
  20. Gib

    Gib Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    27,256
    Likes Received:
    14
    So now your God?
     
    #60 Gib, Jul 17, 2006
Page 3 of 16
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...