1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Does the New Testament teach us that we can use instrumental music in worship

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by God's Word is TRUTH, Jul 15, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 8 of 16
  1. Gib

    Gib Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    27,256
    Likes Received:
    14
    Being a man, your violation was reading the instructions in the first place. :rolleyes:
     
    #141 Gib, Jul 19, 2006
  2. rbell

    rbell Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    shocking.

    I'm floored.
    :tongue3:
     
    #142 rbell, Jul 19, 2006
  3. rbell

    rbell Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK, I've had an epiphany (don't worry...I think I passed it)...

    If OT worship involved instruments...and NT worship doesn't...

    Does Apocryphal worship involve really small instruments?

    Let's all welcome BillyBob Baptist and his Itty Bitty Sackbut Band!


    Don't blame me...I voted for Pitchpipe.

    RBell
     
    #143 rbell, Jul 19, 2006
  4. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    9,405
    Likes Received:
    353
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Only at Christmas time-- his 'birthday.' But if the juice and bread has any preservatives, that's adding; as is chilling any element thereof, or even cutting anything.

    That's only the business of those who do it. I think the wetter, the better.

    Yeah, but it does nobody any good, and probably would get water into their little snouts.

    In a sense, though any incense doesn't develop innocence.

    Except for my DOG. Those 3 letters, frontwards and backwards, amount to overall neutrality.

    And the Word tells us to sing, and doesn't specificy what with or what without. If church buildings [not commanded] can accompany the assembly [commanded], that same reasoning can be used in other topics.

    Now, how about this question: When your church meets, does everyone kiss everyone else? "Greet one another with a holy kiss" [Romans 16:16]. That verse exempts no one [it doesn't say so]. Or do you all repudiate scripture here?
     
    #144 Alcott, Jul 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2006
  5. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    1
    Oddly enough, verses like Eph. 5:19 are also used by anti-rock/CCM advocates to "prove" that contemporary music is sinful, since it "violates" the command to sing "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs" to each other.

    Perhaps the anti-instruments and anti-CCM crowds should get their heads together and decide what this verse means.

    Obviously, the command to "sing" is not violated by singing to an accompaniment, any more than the command to sing "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs" is violated by listening to or singing contemporary music at other times. GWIT's original post accuses those who use instruments in church of adding to God's Word. This is a false accusation, but ironically it is GWIT himself who is guilty of this by saying that "sing" means "sing only." (Plus, he sounds an awful lot like the Taliban, not Jesus.)
     
    #145 Ransom, Jul 20, 2006
  6. tenor

    tenor New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2005
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    0

    Could there not be CONTEMPORARY "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs"? Could some of CCM not be that? Actually the "Hymns and Spiritual songs" mentioned here were probably "comtemporary" when Paul wrote this.

    TO reiterate, Instrumental accompaniment nor instrumental solos violate the "spirit" of the command to sing.

    As to the use of other arts - go for it. ALL (most all) arts can be used in the worship of God.

    Tim
     
    #146 tenor, Jul 20, 2006
  7. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    1
    I could also add: Nor is GWIT correct when he claims that accompaniment "adds" to God's Word. No one I am aware of is saying we must sing to a musical accompaniment. They are all saying we may.
     
    #147 Ransom, Jul 20, 2006
  8. Carpenter

    Carpenter Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2003
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dustin, I have to weigh in on this one. Based on your interpretive logic, then we must ALL surrender to foreign missions:

    MATT 28:19 - Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. - KJV

    Anything other than that would be a sin, right? How many countries have you hit so far?

    I'm sorry, but your theology is sincerely lacking. I encourage you to continue to study the Word and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal its truths to you.

    In Christian Love,
    Bobby
     
    #148 Carpenter, Jul 20, 2006
  9. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If by "art" you mean visual and performance arts, then my opinion is the same as that expressed in the Scriptures. A case can't be made for them.

    There is no such thing as "instrumental worship." Paul called instruments "things without life, giving sound." Just as one cannot be edified by an ecstatic utterance of tongues when there is no interpretation, despite the spirituality of such a manifestation, neither can one be edified by an instrumental piece unless they know what is being played, and even then, it is the words of the song that edify, not the notes and chords.

    No doubt someone will respond and insist that he is edified or "feels the spirit" in instrumental music even when it is an unfamiliar piece, but that would be a mistake. There is a distinction to be made between our emotional responses to a musical piece and the work of the Holy Spirit, which is inextricable from the word of God.

    This is an appeal to magnify experience and emotion above Scripture.

    You may believe that, but can you base this on the Scriptures?
     
    #149 Aaron, Jul 22, 2006
  10. God's Word is TRUTH

    God's Word is TRUTH New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    “I realize that the law of Moses, which replaced the Patriarchal law, was annulled by Jesus’ death on the cross. I further understand that we have the law of Christ today.

    A favorite argument of those desiring to use musical instruments in worship is to refer to Psalms. Since the Jews referred to the Old Testament in three areas—law, prophets (including history books), and psalms (including the Song of Solomon, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Job)—how can we know that Psalms, and the other books of wisdom literature, were annulled along with the law and the prophets?”


    While it is true that the Jews sometimes divided the Old Testament into three parts (e.g. – the law, the prophets, and the psalms – Lk. 24:44), it is also the case that at times the Old Testament was depicted by different, more abbreviated expressions. For example, it is called the “law and the prophets” (Mt. 5:17), or “Moses and the prophets” (Lk. 16:31)—in which case the poetic books were covered under one of these phrases.

    many people here would like to say that the psalms are not the law that Christ took away, but if that is true then why did Jesus refer to psalms as the law? More to the point, however, is the fact that the Psalms were sometimes referred to as “law.” In a discussion with the Jews, in which he contended for his own divine nature, Jesus said:


    “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said you are gods’?” (Jn. 10:34).

    The Lord is quoting from Psalms 82:6, yet he simply calls it “law.” Thus, the term “law” could embrace the entire Old Testament.

    Finally, if the Psalms are binding as law today, then animal sacrifices are still an obligation, because the Psalms contain references to offering sacrifices (see Psa. 66:13-15). That conclusion would nullify the complete and permanent sacrifice of Jesus Christ on behalf of human sin.

    One must not resurrect any Old Testament practice in an attempt to justify worship conduct under the New Covenant regime. If the use of instrumental music in Christian worship is to be sanctioned, there must be New Testament authority for such. And the reality is, there is none—a fact which some advocates of instrumental music now concede. A current ploy is that “authority” is an irrelevant issue. This is a disastrous conclusion of last resort.


    In Christian Love,

    Dustin
     
    #150 God's Word is TRUTH, Jul 23, 2006
  11. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    1
    I do believe that Trotters avatar is appropriate here...

    [​IMG]
     
    #151 PastorSBC1303, Jul 23, 2006
  12. mcdirector

    mcdirector Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    11
    I thought (as LeBuick mentioned) that the entire Bible still has meaning.

    I know, silly me.

    I also think that annul is a odd word to use. I rather think that Christ fulfilled the law or made it complete.
     
    #152 mcdirector, Jul 23, 2006
  13. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    1
    As my Deacon always says, "your Bible will say that to, unless you tour that page out."
     
    #153 LeBuick, Jul 23, 2006
  14. gekko

    gekko New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    welcome Hughes!

    i do believe using art as a form of worship is very acceptable.
    you probably havn't - but have you heard of a ministry named "skycalled" ?

    i'll let the link here explain it - they bring in music artists - they do dancing and art and singing for times of worship - its not a church - just a place of worship.

    http://www.skycalled.com/ - its based in Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada.
     
    #154 gekko, Jul 23, 2006
  15. Lagardo

    Lagardo New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2006
    Messages:
    691
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think its safe to say that some of our instrument opponents most likely use many things in worship that are not found in the New Testament. Once again, thsi argument considers only because arguing is the goal of some. This is contrary to the spirit of unity we are called to.

    Already, we are seeing the destructive nature of some who try to say that only part of God's word is relevant. I do not see any value whatsoever in continuing to entertain agitators.

    David, are the ladies in your church aware that there are no banners in new testament worship? :tongue3:

    Hughes, knock yourself out...God knows your heart. We worship in spirit and truth and THAT is in the New Testament.
     
    #155 Lagardo, Jul 23, 2006
  16. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    15,125
    Likes Received:
    1
    :eek: gasp ...I knew I was missing something... well there goes the church... :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #156 PastorSBC1303, Jul 23, 2006
  17. mcdirector

    mcdirector Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    11
    I'll have to remember that one!
     
    #157 mcdirector, Jul 23, 2006
  18. God's Word is TRUTH

    God's Word is TRUTH New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    the main thing is that you can't appeal to the old testament for your justification in new testament worship. and Christ did fulfill the law but he also took it away.

    Hebrew 8:7-13

    7: For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
    8: For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
    9: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
    10: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    11: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
    12: For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
    13: In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

    Hebrews 10:9

    9: Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

    the point is that the old testament was taken away so there could be a new covanent based on better promises.

    Hebrews 8:6

    6: But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

    there is no authority in the new testament for instruments of music. If God wanted us to use instruments of music in worship He would have told us. Because all things that pertain to life and godliness is contained within the scriptures

    1 Peter 1:3

    3: According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

    and instruments of music aren't contained within the new testament scriptures so therefore it doesn't pertain to life and godliness.

    and when we post we should use scripture(God's word) to back it up and stop saying man's opinion.

    In Christian Love,

    Dustin
     
    #158 God's Word is TRUTH, Jul 23, 2006
  19. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 26, 2001
    Messages:
    4,838
    Likes Received:
    5
    Problem is, not just anything mentioned in the OT was "taken away", but specifically shadows of Christ. We still keep many parts of the Law that were perennial. The one thing you have not done is show that instruments were specifically OT shadows of Christ. If they aren't, then they cannot pass with the OT. Just being mentioned or used there does not fix them to the parts of the Law that were shadows of Christ, such as the sacrifices.
    Once again a dedicated building to hold worship services was apart of the OT system, but not specificed in the NT. But unlike instruments, you think this is allowed as an "expediant".
     
    #159 Eric B, Jul 23, 2006
  20. God's Word is TRUTH

    God's Word is TRUTH New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    0
    it doesn't say that parts of the old law were shadows, it says that the whole law is a shadow.

    In Christian Love,

    Dustin
     
    #160 God's Word is TRUTH, Jul 23, 2006
Page 8 of 16
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...