Does the sinner's prayer saves?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
As per the book Validity of Childhood Religious Conversions by ME (humility is not one of my virtues) a survey was completed in a number of Bible Colleges dealingwith pre-pubescent "conversions".

Over 85% needed ANOTHER decision to either "get saved" or "get assurance". Much of this has to do with the emotional and psychological development of the child.

Parroting a "sinner's prayer" leads to unstable teens/young adults and the need to truly come to grips with salvation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm wondering if it really has as much to do with the so called "sinner's prayer", or rather a bigger problem: that the "new convert" was not taught enough at the time to really understand what he or she was getting into.

I think relying on the "sinner's prayer" is only a part of the larger problem of incomplete discipling.

 

The only prayer that ever saved a sinner went like this; Luke 22:42 Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
This was the prayer for every sinner he nailed to the tree when he said IT IS FINISHED!
We know God answered that prayer when the angel declared HE IS RISEN!... Brother Glen

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
As per the book Validity of Childhood Religious Conversions by ME (humility is not one of my virtues) a survey was completed in a number of Bible Colleges dealingwith pre-pubescent "conversions".

Over 85% needed ANOTHER decision to either "get saved" or "get assurance". Much of this has to do with the emotional and psychological development of the child.

Parroting a "sinner's prayer" leads to unstable teens/young adults and the need to truly come to grips with salvation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hrm...so when the child "called upon the Lord" they were not at an intellectual point of understanding the process of salvation and thus because of this lack of intellectualism the Lord had no way of working in the child's soul and saving them?

If so, Sorry, gotta give that a thumbs down.

UNP
Adam

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joy:

I found it very interesting that their new testimonies always included, "I wasn't sure I was saved, because I don't know if I said the right thing, or if I meant it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just wanted to pick up on this comment that Joy made. I find this interesting also because I’ve seen it in my own life and with others. When people, as Joy described, doubt salvation, what is it they often doubt? Have you ever heard someone say, “I’m not sure that Christ’s death in my place was really acceptable to God” or “I’ve got doubts about my salvation because I’m not convinced Jesus was really that promised redeemer.” What do we hear as reasons for doubts of salvation? “I’m not sure if I prayed the prayer right” or “I’m not sure if I was really sincere enough or said the right things” or “I just don’t feel saved.” Not long ago a missionary made this remark to me that shocked me. She said, “I had doubts about my salvation so I did it again to make sure I had done it the right way.” You could have heard a pin drop after that comment. I asked, “what did you do, to make sure you did the right thing?” She said, “I prayed the sinners prayer.” I said, “if you did the right thing, then what exactly was the purpose in Christ coming?”

I might be wrong but I know from experience that a person like this is trusting in a prayer (their so-called part of salvation) and really not in the one who DID 100% of salvation for sinners.

I remember as a kid laying in bed many nights and re-praying a “Dear Jesus come into my heart” kind of prayer. I’d fit into that category of what Dr. Bob said was unstable. I recall even saying things like, “Dear Jesus, I really mean it this time.” I might also add that numerous times of praying the “sinners prayer” did not produce any spiritual fruit in my life (unless mandatory attendance to SS and services is spiritual fruit, as many tend to assume). It was not until as a young man in the military that God allowed me to see that salvation was what He did and not in a prayer. I have never doubted salvation and have no need to because my faith is based in a savior that fully took my deserved wrath and not in a ditty I “parroted” the right way. Thanks for sharing your observation Joy.

 

Amen, Adam. During the period that I was lost I only knew (Intellectually) two things. One, I was doomed for hell (I was terribly burdened for the welfare of my soul) and two, I could escape by trusting on the blood of Jesus. At that stage of my life that was all God required me to know. If it had been necessary for me to know then what I know now about the "process" of salvation, I'm afraid I would have been so confused trying to sort it out that I might have never been saved. I really have little confidence in the sinners prayer. Some on this thread seem to think it is recited after salvation as a thank you to God. I think the brother missed the meaning on Luke22:42. That was not a sinners prayer. A sinner was not praying it. He prayed that prayer in dread of the suffering He was facing. The true sinners prayer is found in Luke 18:13--"God be merciful to me a sinner."

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glory Bound:

The way I see it, the sinner needs to understand the concepts behind the prayer before praying it. At least basically.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True there must be understanding, but why is a sinner required to pray this prayer in the first place? Is it commanded in scripture, as the sinners part in receiving salvation? Are there any biblical examples of people being asked or encouraged to pray a “sinners prayer”?

[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: PackerBacker ]

 

You didn't understand the depth of what I wrote. What I am saying is I refute the sinners prayer. The sinners prayer has nothing to do with eternal salvation. Either Jesus Christ saves or the sinners prayer is the method used for salvation it can't be both?

The brother mentioned the prayer of the publician "God be merciful to me a sinner." It said this man couldn't even lift his eyes heavenward but cried for mercy. The Pharisee on the other hand didn't feel to be of the same mold as the publican. They were both sinners in God eyes but only the publican was brought to the truth. The Pharisee was blinded by the truth revealed to the publican.

I never said Jesus prayed the sinners prayer. The prayer that he prayed saved the sinner as by the Father answering there was no other way, stated in his holy will that his Son Jesus Christ was the one and only way. In that he raised his Son from the dead proves that his holy will was done. When he comes again and takes us home his holy will is filled and complete... Brother Glen

 

I don't think my observations in Bible college led me to believe that all these kids were getting saved for the first time. On the contrary- their spiritual lives indicated otherwise, however, Dr. Bob seems to have made a similar conclusion to my own. Children potentially have the child-like faith that saves them early on, but mental, social, and spiritual development naturally hinders their ability to understand the full scope of salvation that comes with maturity and adulthood. This can be brought on earlier with better discipleship, even as young children, but it usually doesn't happen on its own until young adulthood. In other words, spiritual maturity seems to be accompanied in part by physical and mental maturity. Just some observations.

In light of this, and to make an application, it is important that we disciple our young ones in the faith, so that they can grow, but constantly reminding them that they said a prayer at 5 can be dangerous. They will begin to either believe they are ok because they parroted a prayer and were told so till they remembered it, or they will have trouble doubting later on because they can't remember if they said the right thing.

 

Joy,

I'm sorry if you feel I misrepresented your quote. I took your observation about students wondering if they prayed the prayer right, and I made my own observations from that point.

If we belive that faith is given by God for salvation, as Dr. Bob mentioned a couple posts up, does God give people faith in a prayer, as the basis of their salvation? I'm just trying to understand why the students you mention have their faith based in a prayer if they were given faith by God to trust in His finshed work for them.

[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: PackerBacker ]

 

Mr 10:15
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the
kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter
therein.
Lu 18:17
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive
the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise
enter therein.
Good Morning!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PackerBacker:
Joy,

I'm sorry if you feel I misrepresented your quote. I took your observation about students wondering if they prayed the prayer right, and I made my own observations from that point.

If we belive that faith is given by God for salvation, as Dr. Bob mentioned a couple posts up, does God give people faith in a prayer, as the basis of their salvation? I'm just trying to understand why the students you mention have their faith based in a prayer if they were given faith by God to trust in His finshed work for them.

[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: PackerBacker ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I think there are a few reasons for it.

1. Lack of mental and spiritual maturity causes children and young adults to doubt.

2. Lack of discipleship causes fear and doubts.

3. Believing in good works, or the saying of a specific repeated prayer means that they truly may
not be born again.

I was saved at age five. I never had trouble with doubting, and I remember understanding completely what I did and never forgot it either.

I did not, however, realize the full scope of what salvation really meant until my teen years when I began to understand doctrinal issues like grace and mercy in a more thorough manner. I then realized just how precious my salvation was to me, and realized that but for the grace of God, I could've burned in Hell forever without my salvation.

As a youngster, I had childlike faith that saved me, but I hadn't lived a hard life of sin. In a way, I was still innocent or perhaps naive is a better term, since I new I had sinned and had a sin nature. When you grow up like this, you suddenly realize the full scope of what Christ did and what you are saved from in early adulthood.

In addition to these college age kids stories, if you follow them through college and into middle age, they tend to change their testimonies once more and say that they were in fact saved at an early age, they doubted and got assurance in college. I have many, many friends like this.

 

Hi. I cannot tell if my view is new or not but this is an issue I want to say a few words about. I firmly believe the so called sinner's prayer is totally without Biblical basis. Neither the Lord Jesus nor His apostles taught on using the sinner's prayer, nor did they use it in practice when evangelizing/preaching the Gospel. Compare with Jes. 8:20, 1Tim. 6:3-5. I hold the sinner's prayer to be just another form of huckstering the word of God (2Cor.2:17). It is nothing but men's traditions (Matt. 15:6-8). If it is not in the Bible it is unbiblical and heretical. Those who practise this thing cannot find any passage of scripture to back up their practice. I do not believe God the Holy Spirit honors such inventions of men and devils as the sinner's prayer so as to use it in the converting of sinners. When one reads these sinner's prayers one readily sees they have a perverted understanding of grace and things pertaining to salvation. The sinner's prayer tracts always have another gospel (2Cor. 11:4, Gal. 1:6-9). Why do people not understand from God's word that it is the work of God alone that men believe on Jesus Christ (John 6:29, Eph. 1:19 etc.). It cannot be conjured up by some manmade prayer. There are three things that must be before conversion can take place in the power of the Spirit - 1. unconditional election in Christ before the world was 2. efficacious redemption by Christ 3. sovereign begetting from above by the Spirit of Christ apart from means. Those who are called of God to preach the glad tidings do not hawk Jesus by offering Him or by utilizing the sinner's prayer or any other unbiblical means. Christ is to be preached biblically, not huckstered as some cheap car.

Harald

 

Harald, I agree with you 100% Steve

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Harald:
Hi. I cannot tell if my view is new or not but this is an issue I want to say a few words about. I firmly believe the so called sinner's prayer is totally without Biblical basis. Neither the Lord Jesus nor His apostles taught on using the sinner's prayer, nor did they use it in practice when evangelizing/preaching the Gospel. Compare with Jes. 8:20, 1Tim. 6:3-5. I hold the sinner's prayer to be just another form of huckstering the word of God (2Cor.2:17). It is nothing but men's traditions (Matt. 15:6-8). If it is not in the Bible it is unbiblical and heretical. Those who practise this thing cannot find any passage of scripture to back up their practice.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, with this kind of reasoning, Harald, I would guess that every prayer you ever pray is strictly taken from scripture. Perhaps even uttered in the original Greek language. For I'm sure you never add your own words, or thoughts to your prayers.

The "sinner's prayer" simply acknowledges the sinfulness of the sinner (that's biblical, isn't it&gt; ), the confession of Jesus as Lord (also biblical, I believe), and a statement of repentance (Repentance is a requirement).

The words themselves aren't the key, but rather the change, the repentance, in the heart and soul of the sinner.

I personally find the implication insulting that those that utilize the "sinner's prayer" are liars. It's one thing to disagree, or to question another viewpoint. Are we not all brothers and sisters in Christ?