Does your church preach on spiritual gifts?

[evangelist6589]

I am all for preaching on the gifts of the spirit just as long as the sign gifts (miracles, healings & tongues) are avoided, as I believe they have ceased. Does your church preach on the gifts, and avoid the sign gifts? It seems like many Baptist churches I have been in, completely avoid all spiritual gifts (not just the sign gifts). I dont like this position, but cant tell someone to preach on gifts. What of your church?

 

[Ruiz]

I am all for preaching on the gifts of the spirit just as long as the sign gifts (miracles, healings & tongues) are avoided, as I believe they have ceased. Does your church preach on the gifts, and avoid the sign gifts? It seems like many Baptist churches I have been in, completely avoid all spiritual gifts (not just the sign gifts). I dont like this position, but cant tell someone to preach on gifts. What of your church?

Overall, we preach verse by verse through the BIble. If it is in the text, we preach it. However, while our church is cessationists, we will address that issue when we get to that part of the text.

The only thing we avoid in the text are the table of contents and maps, everything else we preach.

 

[Zenas]

We had a pastor in the 1980's who did a series of sermons on spiritual gifts, including the sign gifts.

Why do you think the sign gifts have ceased?

 

[Ruiz]

We had a pastor in the 1980's who did a series of sermons on spiritual gifts, including the sign gifts.

Why do you think the sign gifts have ceased?

Just a simple question, as this helps frame the debate. Do you think the canon of Scripture is closed?

I believe like the canon of Scripture, they were given for a period before the closing of the canon. Thus, I would put it in the same category as the canon. If you believe the canon is still open, then that is another question. But if you believe it is closed, you can see why we would have these in the same category.

 

[DiamondLady]

I am all for preaching on the gifts of the spirit just as long as the sign gifts (miracles, healings & tongues) are avoided, as I believe they have ceased. Does your church preach on the gifts, and avoid the sign gifts? It seems like many Baptist churches I have been in, completely avoid all spiritual gifts (not just the sign gifts). I dont like this position, but cant tell someone to preach on gifts. What of your church?

Why would you not teach on the sign gifts? Simply because you believe something has ceased does not mean you should not teach what the value was, how it helped believers then, and then expound on to how the gifts that still function help believers today.

Yes, we teach on gifts. I did a lengthy series on spiritual gifts in my SS class, helping each one realize their gift and how it can be used in the church and in their every day lives.

 

[convicted1]

Yes, our church preaches on Spiritual gifts. They are santification, justification, regeneration, repentence, faith, and all these center on salvation, which is all these gifts rolled up in one.

 

[Zenas]

Just a simple question, as this helps frame the debate. Do you think the canon of Scripture is closed?

I believe like the canon of Scripture, they were given for a period before the closing of the canon. Thus, I would put it in the same category as the canon. If you believe the canon is still open, then that is another question. But if you believe it is closed, you can see why we would have these in the same category.

Of course the canon is closed but that doesn’t mean the sign gifts have ceased. There is no nexus between the closing of the canon and spiritual gifts. I’m not advocating for tongues or any of the other sign gifts, and I certainly don’t have them myself, but I can’t find anything in scripture that would compel me to reject them.

 

[convicted1]

1 Cor. 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.


The speaking of tongues was a gift given to the Disciples to further the Kingdom of God. In Acts chapter two, the tongues they spoke were the tongues of the people from many different nations, who could not understand. God gave the Apostles the ability to speak those languages(tongues), so those who were present could understand what the Apostles were saying.


Acts 2
1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

The tongues they were speaking here was their native languages, and not the tongues you "hear" the pentecostals and WoF utter.

 

[preachinjesus]

We don't talk about them too often since they don't really come up in our ministry context.

When, if, we do we teach the biblical use of them (for instance 1 Cor 14 clarifies the meaning of tongues) and hold an open but cautious view. Too many of us, myself included, have been in ministry contexts where God led an spontaneous use of a sign gift (mine was watching a healing.)

 

[Zenas]

1 Cor. 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

The speaking of tongues was a gift given to the Disciples to further the Kingdom of God. In Acts chapter two, the tongues they spoke were the tongues of the people from many different nations, who could not understand. God gave the Apostles the ability to speak those languages(tongues), so those who were present could understand what the Apostles were saying.

The tongues they were speaking here was their native languages, and not the tongues you "hear" the pentecostals and WoF utter.

Maybe, but it seems the tongues Paul cautioned the Corinthians about was not the same phenomenon as seen in Acts 2.

As for 1 Corintians 13:8, you could take it to mean that the gift of tongues has ceased. If so, that would imply that the gifts of prophecy and knowledge have also ceased.

It could also mean that these gifts have not yet ceased but will cease at some time in the future before the Lord returns. Maybe during the Great Tribulation.

It could also have reference to individuals who have these gifts and not to the gifts themselves. For instance, you might have the gift of tongues now but you could lose it in the future. However, even though you may lose some of your spiritual gifts, the gift of love will abide forever.

So take your pick of interpretations. I won't take offense if you are a "cessationist" but that is not the only possible approach to the issue.

I realize there are many here whose skepticism of the sign gifts comes partly from the efforts of their zealous proponents to win others over to their way of thinking (sheep stealing). John of Japan has written about that quite a bit lately. I too find this habit of theirs rather annoying but only because I'm not interested in acquiring these gifts, not because I don't think they exist.

 

[Ruiz]

Of course the canon is closed but that doesn’t mean the sign gifts have ceased. There is no nexus between the closing of the canon and spiritual gifts. I’m not advocating for tongues or any of the other sign gifts, and I certainly don’t have them myself, but I can’t find anything in scripture that would compel me to reject them.

You are right, because the canon of Scripture is closed does not mean they have ceased. However, much of the same argument for the cessation of Scripture is used for the sign gifts, as we have no need for this type of revelation because of the canon. If we need this type of revelation, then the Bible is not sufficient. That is basically the argument (maybe an oversimplification).

 

[convicted1]

Maybe, but it seems the tongues Paul cautioned the Corinthians about was not the same phenomenon as seen in Acts 2.

As for 1 Corintians 13:8, you could take it to mean that the gift of tongues has ceased. If so, that would imply that the gifts of prophecy and knowledge have also ceased.

It could also mean that these gifts have not yet ceased but will cease at some time in the future before the Lord returns. Maybe during the Great Tribulation.

It could also have reference to individuals who have these gifts and not to the gifts themselves. For instance, you might have the gift of tongues now but you could lose it in the future. However, even though you may lose some of your spiritual gifts, the gift of love will abide forever.

So take your pick of interpretations. I won't take offense if you are a "cessationist" but that is not the only possible approach to the issue.

I realize there are many here whose skepticism of the sign gifts comes partly from the efforts of their zealous proponents to win others over to their way of thinking (sheep stealing). John of Japan has written about that quite a bit lately. I too find this habit of theirs rather annoying but only because I'm not interested in acquiring these gifts, not because I don't think they exist.

Well, the reason why I oppose them is because I used to work with a lady who is a WoF "preacher". She made the statement that once you get "there", meaning things like the gift of tongues, being slain and/or drunk in the Spirit, you don't want to go back to the "level" they were prior to these "gifts". It's like their "spiritualness" is much higher than mine. These teachings have brough MUCH pride into their lives, and we have no pride other than the work that God did when He saved us. If we boast, we must boast in the Lord.

BTW, who was the last "prophet" you have spoken to??(I do not mean this to sound snippy either, so please do not take it that way) I sure haven't seen any. God will show us things, but that doesn't make us prophets.

 

[evangelist6589]

Just a simple question, as this helps frame the debate. Do you think the canon of Scripture is closed?

I believe like the canon of Scripture, they were given for a period before the closing of the canon. Thus, I would put it in the same category as the canon. If you believe the canon is still open, then that is another question. But if you believe it is closed, you can see why we would have these in the same category.

Many Charismatic believe that the Canon was not closed and hold to continuing Revelation.

 

[evangelist6589]

Overall, we preach verse by verse through the BIble. If it is in the text, we preach it. However, while our church is cessationists, we will address that issue when we get to that part of the text.

The only thing we avoid in the text are the table of contents and maps, everything else we preach.

What type of cessationist are you? Are you hard or soft? Hard cessationist believe that every spiritual gift has ceased. Soft believe that only the sign gifts have ceased.

 

[Ruiz]

What type of cessationist are you? Are you hard or soft? Hard cessationist believe that every spiritual gift has ceased. Soft believe that only the sign gifts have ceased.

I do not know of anyone who believes all spiritual gifts have ceased, if there is one I would be interested in reading their theological statement.

I believe that which invokes a form of revelation have ceased. I base my view upon the idea that Special Revelation was complete with the Canon, thus Scripture being sufficient does not need other special revelation. If, my view goes, the Scripture is closed so is other revelatory gifts for the exact same reason.

 

[Ruiz]

Many Charismatic believe that the Canon was not closed and hold to continuing Revelation.

I have never met someone who believed that Scripture was still open, that we should add to Scripture today. Atleast, I have not read any who would traditionally be considered orthodox.

 

[JesusFan]

Many Charismatic believe that the Canon was not closed and hold to continuing Revelation.

NOT ones that are biblical!

ONLY those holding to heretical doctrines taught by such as Hagin/Copeland/price/Hinn etc!

 

[Zenas]

You are right, because the canon of Scripture is closed does not mean they have ceased. However, much of the same argument for the cessation of Scripture is used for the sign gifts, as we have no need for this type of revelation because of the canon. If we need this type of revelation, then the Bible is not sufficient. That is basically the argument (maybe an oversimplification).

Well . . . the Bible is not completely sufficient. If it were there would be no need for people like you. Romans 10:14-15. And I dare say you would be even more effective if you could heal the sick and make yourself understood in multiple languages at the same time.

 

[Zenas]

Well, the reason why I oppose them is because I used to work with a lady who is a WoF "preacher". She made the statement that once you get "there", meaning things like the gift of tongues, being slain and/or drunk in the Spirit, you don't want to go back to the "level" they were prior to these "gifts". It's like their "spiritualness" is much higher than mine. These teachings have brough MUCH pride into their lives, and we have no pride other than the work that God did when He saved us. If we boast, we must boast in the Lord.

BTW, who was the last "prophet" you have spoken to??(I do not mean this to sound snippy either, so please do not take it that way) I sure haven't seen any. God will show us things, but that doesn't make us prophets.

I agree. These people have a holier than thou attitude and I know they can cause much mischief in a church, even in a church with their own kind.

I am not personally acquainted with any prophets, although I think we have some around. For instance, I would regard Billy Graham as a prophet.

 

[DiamondLady]

I agree. These people have a holier than thou attitude and I know they can cause much mischief in a church, even in a church with their own kind.

I am not personally acquainted with any prophets, although I think we have some around. For instance, I would regard Billy Graham as a prophet.

Billy Graham would disagree with you. I think many people confuse prophecy and discernment. They also confuse hearing God's voice (John 10:27) with prophecy. Hearing God's voice is not prophecy. God does not give an individual a "word" for another individual. It's not like a mom telling one child to tell their brother to come get a cookie. God speaks to each of His children individually. That's why when we hear a sermon we each hear different things, because the message is different for each. If not then every preacher would be a prophet, as God gives them (or should) the sermons they offer.

When talking about spiritual gifts we tend to focus entirely too much on the negative ideas of tongues and healing instead of focusing instead on the other 16 and teaching others how to use them in their lives and in the church for the honor and glory of God.