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Doesn't Hebrews 2:3 Show The Sign Gifts Had Already Ceased?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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and many times I agreed that it was a sign to authenicate the apostles! But you limit them to just that! I do not!!Do you deny Heb.2:3,4 and 2Cor.12:12, both of which have been explained to you many times.
But you try to throw that scripture out..it is plain that the 9 gifts listed in 1 Cor. 12 are a manifestation of the Holy Spirit...IN CONTEXT! YOu also limit them to the Corinthian church and a certain age..that man has divided, not the Word!As I explained to you, the passage is not about "a manifestation." You fail to take into account the context, the verses before and after. The passage is speaking about spiritual gifts that were revealed in the church of Corinth through the Holy Spirit. For you to bluntly say they have not ceased without scriptural backup is just foolishness. I exegeted that passage for you so you could understand that it is speaking of spiritual gifts in the context of the Corinthian church. The subject is not "manifestation."
I also have given several scriptures pointing to when they will cease...that you ignore!
YOu added to what the scriptures say in order to prove your theory. Paul did say he spoke in tongues more than all because tongues is talking to God not man 1 Cor. 14:2 .."but unto God". Paul prayed in the spirit more than all..this I will agree! But not your added commentary that is not backed up with scripture.And Paul went on three missionary journeys establishing more than 100 churches. He said to the Corinthians: "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all." It was out of necessity. For he also said: "I would rather speak 5 words with understanding than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue." The necessity of speaking in a foreign language (that is what a tongue was), was when he was in a foreign country. It was not just for nilly willy show off purposes which have no value.
He would rather speak in a church tongues that all can understand. Because tongues without interpretation is not for the congregation.
and many times I agreed that it was a sign to authenicate the apostles! But you limit them to just that! I do not!!
But you try to throw that scripture out..it is plain that the 9 gifts listed in 1 Cor. 12 are a manifestation of the Holy Spirit...IN CONTEXT! YOu also limit them to the Corinthian church and a certain age..that man has divided, not the Word!
I also have given several scriptures pointing to when they will cease...that you ignore!
YOu added to what the scriptures say in order to prove your theory. Paul did say he spoke in tongues more than all because tongues is talking to God not man 1 Cor. 14:2 .."but unto God". Paul prayed in the spirit more than all..this I will agree! But not your added commentary that is not backed up with scripture.
He would rather speak in a church tongues that all can understand. Because tongues without interpretation is not for the congregation.
remember that tongues fulfilled OT prophecy, and the sign gifts were put into palce by God UNTIL the foundation of Jesus/Apostles/Prophets was laid, now we have the completed Bible and the Holy Spirit to guide us into its truth!
Jesus dying on the cross fulfilled bible prophecy too! Has salvation ended?remember that tongues fulfilled OT prophecy, and the sign gifts were put into palce by God UNTIL the foundation of Jesus/Apostles/Prophets was laid, now we have the completed Bible and the Holy Spirit to guide us into its truth!
THey were given to the church! NOt just the apostles..and the church is still being called out until Christ returns!
Jesus dying on the cross fulfilled bible prophecy too! Has salvation ended?
THey were given to the church! NOt just the apostles..and the church is still being called out until Christ returns!
they are NOT needed at this present time though, for the Bible states that IT alone can and does FULLY equip us to do the will and work of God!
And the works of God are in the Bible! The Bible instructs us how to live in the Spirit!they are NOT needed at this present time though, for the Bible states that IT alone can and does FULLY equip us to do the will and work of God!
And the works of God are in the Bible! The Bible instructs us how to live in the Spirit!
yes, but the Bible instructs us to walk in the Sprit and abide in Christ and his word, but NOT to walk in the Gifts of the Spirit per say!
yes, but the Bible instructs us to walk in the Sprit and abide in Christ and his word, but NOT to walk in the Gifts of the Spirit per say!
1 Cor. 1:7,8; 14:1
Also His Word includes the manifestation of the Holy Spirit through the believers!
Walk in the Spirit; NOT walk in the manifestation of the Spirit! Where do you get that from. One verse contains the word "manifestation of the Spirit" and you build an entire doctrine around it! We are commanded to walk in the Spirit. 1Cor.12 speaks about the gifts of the Spirit that were revealed in the first century to that church for specific reasons. They are not revealed to us, nor were they manifested in other churches even in the first century.1 Cor. 1:7,8; 14:1
Also His Word includes the manifestation of the Holy Spirit through the believers!
He reminds them in the first chapter:
1 Corinthians 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
--They had all the gifts. They came behind in no gift. Never did he say that of any other church. Other churches didn't have all the gifts. Perhaps they were more mature and didn't need them. Corinthian believers were carnal. The gifts were to help them, but they were misusing them, even as Charismatics today are pretending to imitate them.
convicted1
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Raising the dead was a sign that Jesus was/is indeed the Son of God, and that the Apostles were sent from Christ.
Casting out demons was a sign to the people that Jesus was/is God, and that the Apostles were sent from Christ.
Walking on water was a sign to Peter that Jesus was/is God.
Speaking in tongues was a sign to the "outsiders" that they were the Apostles of Jesus Christ.
When's the last time anyone has ever heard of someone going into a funeral home and raising a corpse? When's the last time we have heard of someone walking on a puddle of water, let alone, a body of water? When's the last time anyone heard of someone/anyone casting out demons?.......I know some claim they have done this, and some state they have seen it done, but I have my doubts........
If someone/anyone can do ANY of these, then maybe, just maybe, I'll believe these signs haven't ceased. Until then, I will still remain in the group that believes that speaking in tongues, raising the dead, walking on water, and casting out demons, no longer can be done.
Casting out demons was a sign to the people that Jesus was/is God, and that the Apostles were sent from Christ.
Walking on water was a sign to Peter that Jesus was/is God.
Speaking in tongues was a sign to the "outsiders" that they were the Apostles of Jesus Christ.
When's the last time anyone has ever heard of someone going into a funeral home and raising a corpse? When's the last time we have heard of someone walking on a puddle of water, let alone, a body of water? When's the last time anyone heard of someone/anyone casting out demons?.......I know some claim they have done this, and some state they have seen it done, but I have my doubts........
If someone/anyone can do ANY of these, then maybe, just maybe, I'll believe these signs haven't ceased. Until then, I will still remain in the group that believes that speaking in tongues, raising the dead, walking on water, and casting out demons, no longer can be done.
Allowing the HS to manifest His power through you is part of walking in the spirit.Walk in the Spirit; NOT walk in the manifestation of the Spirit! Where do you get that from. One verse contains the word "manifestation of the Spirit" and you build an entire doctrine around it! We are commanded to walk in the Spirit. 1Cor.12 speaks about the gifts of the Spirit that were revealed in the first century to that church for specific reasons. They are not revealed to us, nor were they manifested in other churches even in the first century.
The book of 1 Corinthians was a book of correction in most of the doctrines they were misusing...but part of the correction was to show how it was to be done the right way. No where does it say it is done away with. The verse you quoted told when they would be done away with...at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ..has this happened yet? NO!!!He reminds them in the first chapter:
1 Corinthians 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
--They had all the gifts. They came behind in no gift. Never did he say that of any other church. Other churches didn't have all the gifts. Perhaps they were more mature and didn't need them. Corinthian believers were carnal. The gifts were to help them, but they were misusing them, even as Charismatics today are pretending to imitate them.
Well, some like doubting Thomas has to be shown. But Jesus said blessed are those that do not have to see... and still believe!Raising the dead was a sign that Jesus was/is indeed the Son of God, and that the Apostles were sent from Christ.
Casting out demons was a sign to the people that Jesus was/is God, and that the Apostles were sent from Christ.
Walking on water was a sign to Peter that Jesus was/is God.
Speaking in tongues was a sign to the "outsiders" that they were the Apostles of Jesus Christ.
When's the last time anyone has ever heard of someone going into a funeral home and raising a corpse? When's the last time we have heard of someone walking on a puddle of water, let alone, a body of water? When's the last time anyone heard of someone/anyone casting out demons?.......I know some claim they have done this, and some state they have seen it done, but I have my doubts........
If someone/anyone can do ANY of these, then maybe, just maybe, I'll believe these signs haven't ceased. Until then, I will still remain in the group that believes that speaking in tongues, raising the dead, walking on water, and casting out demons, no longer can be done.
Mark 16 is plain that those that believe what the apostles teach..signs will follow them. Most deny what the apostles really taught...the power of the Holy Spirit!
Jesus was speaking to the apostles in Mark 16.Well, some like doubting Thomas has to be shown. But Jesus said blessed are those that do not have to see... and still believe!
Mark 16 is plain that those that believe what the apostles teach..signs will follow them. Most deny what the apostles really taught...the power of the Holy Spirit!
Do you drink poisonous things?
Do you pick up deadly snakes?
These are the signs and wonders that followed. These kind of things would not harm them. Do they harm you?
The Spiritual gifts have ceased.
Well, some like doubting Thomas has to be shown. But Jesus said blessed are those that do not have to see... and still believe!
Mark 16 is plain that those that believe what the apostles teach..signs will follow them. Most deny what the apostles really taught...the power of the Holy Spirit!
jesus said that rejoice NOT that the Demons obey you, or miracles were done in his name, bu tthat your name was written in the Book of Life!
he also said that there will be MANY false messiahs/Christs in last days doing those things, as to deceive even the elect if possible!
he also said MANY will be like those on TBN that heal cast out demons do miracles go to hell...
YOu need to do a research on what the snakes and poison is! No! they have not ceased! Only to those that explain them away in unbelief..Jesus was speaking to the apostles in Mark 16.
Do you drink poisonous things?
Do you pick up deadly snakes?
These are the signs and wonders that followed. These kind of things would not harm them. Do they harm you?
The Spiritual gifts have ceased.
ANd I do not disagree with Jesus, I do rejoice in the fact that my name is written in the Book of Life! But the demons did obey them!jesus said that rejoice NOT that the Demons obey you, or miracles were done in his name, bu tthat your name was written in the Book of Life!
I agree that there will be false christ..but there is also a real one! So what does that prove?he also said that there will be MANY false messiahs/Christs in last days doing those things, as to deceive even the elect if possible!
That is why we need the gift of discernment!! That is why the gifts are still available to the church today! We need them more today than they did back then!he also said MANY will be like those on TBN that heal cast out demons do miracles go to hell...
ANd I do not disagree with Jesus, I do rejoice in the fact that my name is written in the Book of Life! But the demons did obey them!
I agree that there will be false christ..but there is also a real one! So what does that prove?
That is why we need the gift of discernment!! That is why the gifts are still available to the church today! We need them more today than they did back then!
We have the sure word of God in the Bible, and the Holy Spirit to aid us!
We have the sure word of God in the Bible, and the Holy Spirit to aid us!
Have never denied that! But most deny the power and only have a form of godliness!
Have never denied that! But most deny the power and only have a form of godliness!
While I am not a cessationist it is quite apparent you have no clue what that means. You need to be more careful with context.
Have never denied that! But most deny the power and only have a form of godliness!
Are you saying here that IF one does not hold to the View of a Charasmatic that one needs to have the "Baptism" in the Holy Ghost, will be weak and spiritual powerless than?
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