"Dogs, cats in heaven," says the Pope. Do you believe?

[plain_n_simple]

I'm curious that no one has mentioned this, plain_n_simple. I'm also curious what scripture you used to formulate this opinion. And yeah, I'm admitting that I can't think of any scripture off hand that states an animal's spirit comes from and returns to the earth.

I was using Ecclesiastes 3:21 which is in question form, so thinking about it I'm not so sure it leads to a definitive statement.
For context:

18 I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” 19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?[a] 22 So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

We tell ourselves and our kids that lost pets go to heaven to ease pain, but maybe the spirit goes back to the Creator when all is said and done?

 

[sag38]

When Jesus returns He will be riding on something white. Where does this white thingy come from? I don't think it came from earth.

 

[righteousdude2]

When Jesus returns He will be riding on something white. Where does this white thingy come from? I don't think it came from earth.

You have my vote for pope :thumbsup: actually, you are right on, there are animals in heaven including the white horse thingy ... the infamous lion laying with the lamb .... the four riders are referred to as horsemen which means they need horses to ride ... and God did order Noah to save a male and female of each creature ... plus He made the creatures before He made mankind .... and the Lord is referred to as the lamb, shepherd. I tend to think animals will be a part of the new heaven and earth. Case closed!

 

[matt wade]

Case closed!

Case not closed. You can't say our pets will go to heaven when they die simply because there are references to animals in heaven. We have no scriptural proof one way or another that our pets go to heaven. Given God's silence on the subject, I tend to believe that they won't.

 

[sag38]

I wasn't suggesting that our pets go to heaven or do not go to heaven. There simply isn't enough evidence to support either point of view. But, some believe, in error, that there are no animals in heaven. If there are non then where did Jesus' white horse come from?

 

[salzer mtn]

If animals go to heaven then mankind would have been better off being born a animal than a human. There is no scripture to support an atonement was made for animals to go to heaven. I said this in another thread on this same subject, People all over the world have different kinds of pets. Snakes, turtles, rats ect. so if your Fido dog goes what about someone else's pet snake or rat ? Heaven is a place to worship Him forever who redeemed you from sin. It is a Spiritual place for spiritual people. It is not a carnal place where people own pets. Some people view heaven with a carnal mind and their version of heaven is what they want it to be. If you cannot see heaven as a place of eternal worship then you will be totally out of place if you were to go there.

 

[Sapper Woody]

If animals go to heaven then mankind would have been better off being born a animal than a human. There is no scripture to support an atonement was made for animals to go to heaven. I said this in another thread on this same subject, People all over the world have different kinds of pets. Snakes, turtles, rats ect. so if your Fido dog goes what about someone else's pet snake or rat ? Heaven is a place to worship Him forever who redeemed you from sin. It is a Spiritual place for spiritual people. It is not a carnal place where people own pets. Some people view heaven with a carnal mind and their version of heaven is what they want it to be. If you cannot see heaven as a place of eternal worship then you will be totally out of place if you were to go there.

While I understand what you're saying, let me make a statement that will hopefully put any naysayers to rest.



Heaven is a perfect place. When we get there, we will be in glorified bodies. Our wants, desires, and needs will be different. Here on earth, we have a desire to think we'll see our pets again in Heaven. I have no problem telling someone that their pet will be in Heaven. It just may be that God will give us our perfect Earth in Heaven, ie; the food and pets we loved. We don't know.



But my point is, whatever is or is not there, we won't be disappointed. Our desires will be shaped to match up perfectly with whatever is there.

 

[Revmitchell]

Our eternal dwelling place with God is not going to be in heaven.


Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.


Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
Rev 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."
Rev 21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."


God has said that in the future, in eternity, He will renew all that is corrupted. He set Adam and Eve on this earth not in a renewed state but in a new state. God now says that all of creation is awaiting his renewal. There will be a new heaven and earth. Here He will dwell with man.

Will our previous pets be a part of this. It is not known but unlikely. Certainly not something worth being dogmatic or contentious about. There will most likely be pets, horses, animals of all kinds. We will be in perfect dominion over them as God originally intended.The original perfect state of the earth will be restored and here we will Dwell with God.

 

[InTheLight]

Good answer Rev. [emoji106]

 

[salzer mtn]

For those that take every word in Rev. literal Chapter 22:14-15 Blessed are those that do his commandments, that they may have a right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are DOGS and sorcerers, and whoremongers and murders and idolaters and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. If horses mean literal horses ( animals) as in chapter 6 then dogs mean dogs in chapter 22. So Fido or Lassie or Rin Tin Tin won't be there.

 

[PreachTony]

I was using Ecclesiastes 3:21 which is in question form, so thinking about it I'm not so sure it leads to a definitive statement.
For context:

18 I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” 19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. 21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?[a] 22 So I perceived that nothing is better than that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

We tell ourselves and our kids that lost pets go to heaven to ease pain, but maybe the spirit goes back to the Creator when all is said and done?

Thanks, plain_n_simple. I knew the "from the dust" line, but I was drawing a blank on the part where the spirit goes down tot he earth. Again, thank you for the clarification.

 

[blackbird]

Pope Francis finally confirmed what no Pope before him would .... your pets will be in heaven, too! This followed his consoling a child who had just lost her family pet. And in a way, it surprises me that the Vatican didn't hold this to be true a long time before now, after all .... the local Catholic churches hold a blessing of animals every year.

I happen to believe this to be true, but what about you?

Who died and left the pope in charge???:wavey::laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

No.........

No! No! No! No!
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Thousand Hills]

Who died and left the pope in charge???:wavey::laugh:

I think that's what Timf was saying in post #10. As good Baptists, why do we care what the Pope says about anything, and is the pope just telling self absorbed people what they want to hear to keep the money coming in?

 

[percho]

Our eternal dwelling place with God is not going to be in heaven.


Rom 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.


Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
Rev 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."
Rev 21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."


God has said that in the future, in eternity, He will renew all that is corrupted. He set Adam and Eve on this earth not in a renewed state but in a new state. God now says that all of creation is awaiting his renewal. There will be a new heaven and earth. Here He will dwell with man.

Will our previous pets be a part of this. It is not known but unlikely. Certainly not something worth being dogmatic or contentious about. There will most likely be pets, horses, animals of all kinds. We will be in perfect dominion over them as God originally intended.The original perfect state of the earth will be restored and here we will Dwell with God.

Thank you. I do not think you can find anywhere that it says, one goes to heaven, man or beast.

I made my original posts only to show that man who has died has to be raised from the dead in order to inherit an eternal state. The death, is the last enemy.

From my first post. Where does, the death, of an animal come from? Especially when applied to this verse, which you quoted. YLT Rom 8:20 for to vanity was the creation made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it -- in hope,

Hope there has to be the promise of God made before the creation, Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

The vanity God subjected the creation to was the death and it was the devil that had the power of the death. Heb 2:14 YLT Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through (the) death he might destroy him having the power of (the) death -- that is, the devil --

(the) is in the Greek and I believe it to be important to understanding the word death.

The death, is the works of the devil spoken of here; 1 John 3:8 KJV He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

BTW I believe this post would be relevant to a new thread I started today in the other theology forum.

 

[OldRegular]

I wasn't suggesting that our pets go to heaven or do not go to heaven. There simply isn't enough evidence to support either point of view. But, some believe, in error, that there are no animals in heaven. If there are non then where did Jesus' white horse come from?

That is symbolic language just as much of that book of Revelation. Do you believe He has a sharp sword sticking out of His mouth?

 

[sag38]

Personally, I see the horse as being real. Why wouldn't it be? It is obvious that the "sword' is symbolic of His spoken word. But, there is no valid reason to see the horse as being symbolic.

You see a lot more symbolism in Revelation so that it might fit your theology of the end times. I lean more toward a dispensational view point and see more of the narrative as being literal not to mention the use of common sense goes a long ways in interpreting the scripture.

 

[InTheLight]

Pope Francis finally confirmed what no Pope before him would .... your pets will be in heaven, too!

Here we go again...

Turns out Pope Francis didn’t make the pets-in-heaven comment

VATICAN CITY — It was a heartwarming story for legions of pet owners and animal lovers around the world: Pope Francis, talking to a distraught boy whose pet had died, declared there was a place in heaven for the creatures with which we share our lives.

The comment was reported last week by news media around the world. It was veritable catnip to social media.

However, it turns out the pope didn’t say that. The news stories were apparently based on a misreading of remarks Francis made at his weekly general audience at the Vatican on Nov. 26 and on a comment that Pope Paul VI made several decades ago. Paul, who died in 1978, once said, reportedly while comforting a child whose dog had died, “One day we will see our animals in the eternity of Christ.”

“There is a fundamental rule in journalism,” the Vatican’s deputy spokesman, the Rev. Ciro Benedettini, said Saturday. “That is double-checking, and in this case it was not done.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...7e9a68-8317-11e4-b005-b260c9ec5217_story.html

 

[Zenas]

Pope Francis finally confirmed what no Pope before him would .... your pets will be in heaven, too! This followed his consoling a child who had just lost her family pet. And in a way, it surprises me that the Vatican didn't hold this to be true a long time before now, after all .... the local Catholic churches hold a blessing of animals every year.

I happen to believe this to be true, but what about you?

He didn't say that. Moreover, what he did day was in a general audience, not in consoling a child over a pet that died. Here is what the pope actually said:

At the same time, Sacred Scripture teaches us that the fulfillment of this marvelous plan cannot but involve everything that surrounds us and came from the heart and mind of God.

The Apostle Paul says it explicitly, when he says that “Creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God” (Rom 8:21).

Other texts utilize the image of a “new heaven” and a “new earth” (cf. 2 Pet 3:13; Rev 21:1), in the sense that the whole universe will be renewed and will be freed once and for all from every trace of evil and from death itself.

What lies ahead is the fulfillment of a transformation that in reality is already happening, beginning with the death and resurrection of Christ.

Hence, it is the new creation; it is not, therefore, the annihilation of the cosmos and of everything around us, but the bringing of all things into the fullness of being, of truth and of beauty.

This is the design that God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, willed from eternity to realize and is realizing.

The secular press distorted it because they are not a part of the Christian community and don't know enough about it to draw proper conclusions. (And it looks like my post is redundant. InTheLight has already pointed these things out.)