Donald Trump Slip Up?

[Sapper Woody]

I did a quick search, and found nothing on this yet (surprisingly). So I decided to preemptively start a thread on this.

As most of you probably haven't realized - but will once I state this - I've mostly stayed out of arguing in the news/current events/politics section of the board for a while. I haven't explicitly stated who I'm supporting (although it's definitely NOT Hilary), and have only a couple of times defended something that Trump has said, as people have taken it out of context.

Today, Trump made what some people are calling a "gaffe", "slip-up", or any number of things. The quote is here:

When people come back from war and combat and they see things that maybe a lot of the folks in this room have seen many times over and you're strong and you can handle it, but a lot of people can't handle it

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-fire-comments-veterans-ptsd/story?id=42536616

Many people are blasting Trump for apparently calling people with PTSD "weak". But that's not what I'm getting from it at all. This is a totally different side of Trump I'm seeing from what the media normally portrays. This is a compassionate Trump, not the brash man that says anything he's thinking.

For those of you who don't know, I suffer from PTSD. Pretty severely. I've been out of the Army for roughly 21 months now, and I've already lost 5 jobs due to my struggles with PTSD/TBI/Anxiety/Adjustment Disorder. I spent 12 months in Iraq, and 13 months in Afghanistan. Both tours my job was route clearance. In other words, I drove trucks ahead of convoys looking for IEDs (bombs) so that the less protected vehicles behind me could get through without casualties.

We lost count of how many explosions I witnessed, but we're guessing that the number is at least 75. And that's the ones I was there personally for. I saw videos from other platoons, and watched many more while in the air over other clearance convoys. I've seen my joes get hit; and I've seen my buddies get hit. I've seen a buddy get hit twice in less than an hour. He was so messed up in the head that he would get lost in the 100 meters from our barracks to the showers, and had to have an escort.

Needless to say, I'm familiar with battle, and I'm familiar with PTSD. What Donald Trump said today in no way offends me; rather, it shows that he is aware of the issue and has some compassion for it. I didn't take what Trump said today as calling me weak. The only weak ones are those who don't get help.

Now, let's talk about if Trump had actually meant that those with PTSD are weak. Would that be inaccurate? If you stress test two boards, and one breaks, then it's the weaker one. If two people fall from the same height, and one breaks his legs, then his bones were weaker. So, even if he did mean to say what the media outlets are saying he meant to say, he's not wrong. Some people's minds are more resilient than others. Turns out that mine wasn't as resilient as some.

So, again, I just wanted to preemptively stall the threads that I know are coming, and shed some light on what was said.

 

[InTheLight]

Appreciate your input.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo

 

[Salty]

Woody, I spent many years with Uncle Sam, but not on day in combat. Thus I contend that if you were not there, your input does not carry that much wait.

The only thing I can really comment on is one night I was on CQ (in Germany) - at about 0300, we received a phone call from CONUS - a wife wanted to talk to her husband, I went upstairs - went to his bedside and nudge him on his shoulder. I thought that NCO was going to kill me.
Mind you - this was in 1978 - SEVERAL years since he had been in NAM.

Woody, I trust that the Lord will give you strength as you venture thus this time.

 

[carpro]

What he said was absolutely true and no insult at all.

The fact is people have different capacities to process and deal with human carnage.

That's just the way it is.

I know a lot of men that I served with that have suffered from PTSD. Some still do. I had some issues that lasted about 6 months. Nothing in the last 46 years. Am I tougher than they? Not hardly. Maybe just better at dealing with it and putting it aside.

But I know it's real. Now I know Donald Trump does too.

 

[Zaac]

I did a quick search, and found nothing on this yet (surprisingly). So I decided to preemptively start a thread on this.

As most of you probably haven't realized - but will once I state this - I've mostly stayed out of arguing in the news/current events/politics section of the board for a while. I haven't explicitly stated who I'm supporting (although it's definitely NOT Hilary), and have only a couple of times defended something that Trump has said, as people have taken it out of context.

Today, Trump made what some people are calling a "gaffe", "slip-up", or any number of things. The quote is here:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-fire-comments-veterans-ptsd/story?id=42536616

Many people are blasting Trump for apparently calling people with PTSD "weak". But that's not what I'm getting from it at all. This is a totally different side of Trump I'm seeing from what the media normally portrays. This is a compassionate Trump, not the brash man that says anything he's thinking.

For those of you who don't know, I suffer from PTSD. Pretty severely. I've been out of the Army for roughly 21 months now, and I've already lost 5 jobs due to my struggles with PTSD/TBI/Anxiety/Adjustment Disorder. I spent 12 months in Iraq, and 13 months in Afghanistan. Both tours my job was route clearance. In other words, I drove trucks ahead of convoys looking for IEDs (bombs) so that the less protected vehicles behind me could get through without casualties.

We lost count of how many explosions I witnessed, but we're guessing that the number is at least 75. And that's the ones I was there personally for. I saw videos from other platoons, and watched many more while in the air over other clearance convoys. I've seen my joes get hit; and I've seen my buddies get hit. I've seen a buddy get hit twice in less than an hour. He was so messed up in the head that he would get lost in the 100 meters from our barracks to the showers, and had to have an escort.

Needless to say, I'm familiar with battle, and I'm familiar with PTSD. What Donald Trump said today in no way offends me; rather, it shows that he is aware of the issue and has some compassion for it. I didn't take what Trump said today as calling me weak. The only weak ones are those who don't get help.

Now, let's talk about if Trump had actually meant that those with PTSD are weak. Would that be inaccurate? If you stress test two boards, and one breaks, then it's the weaker one. If two people fall from the same height, and one breaks his legs, then his bones were weaker. So, even if he did mean to say what the media outlets are saying he meant to say, he's not wrong. Some people's minds are more resilient than others. Turns out that mine wasn't as resilient as some.

So, again, I just wanted to preemptively stall the threads that I know are coming, and shed some light on what was said.

Very informative Sapper. The problem that arises for Trump and so many Christians and their selective empathy is that people view it as fake if you can't muster up the same type empathy for all others.

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[Sapper Woody]

Woody, I spent many years with Uncle Sam, but not on day in combat. Thus I contend that if you were not there, your input does not carry that much wait.

This is true to me, as well; to a point. There are some people capable of enough empathy to almost truly understand. But what I tell people is, "I don't need you to understand. I need you to be understanding."

The only thing I can really comment on is one night I was on CQ (in Germany) - at about 0300, we received a phone call from CONUS - a wife wanted to talk to her husband, I went upstairs - went to his bedside and nudge him on his shoulder. I thought that NCO was going to kill me.
Mind you - this was in 1978 - SEVERAL years since he had been in NAM.

Sadly, my wife and daughters know that I do not tolerate any unsolicited physical touch. It broke my heart the first time I heard my daughter ask, "Mommy, can I ever hug Daddy?" and she replied, "Yes, but you have to ask him first." It's not that I don't like physical contact, it's that the surprise of an unexpected touch may end badly. My wife also knows to not wake me by shaking me. On the lighter side, we keep some extra pillows that she can wake me with!

Woody, I trust that the Lord will give you strength as you venture thus this time.

I'll be honest, Salty. It's been hard. I'm currently in between jobs (although I have an interview coming up with a bass pro shop for seasonal work), but I just had my disabilities re-evaluated. With losing 5 jobs, I'm hoping that they increase my disability (currently at a total of 60%). I don't want to completely retire, but I'm hoping to get 100% for the duration of my schooling. My hope is that after I have my degrees, I can settle into a job where the stress level isn't so high as to set me off.

 

[Sapper Woody]

What he said was absolutely true and no insult at all.

The fact is people have different capacities to process and deal with human carnage.

That's just the way it is.

I know a lot of men that I served with that have suffered from PTSD. Some still do. I had some issues that lasted about 6 months. Nothing in the last 46 years. Am I tougher than they? Not hardly. Maybe just better at dealing with it and putting it aside.

But I know it's real. Now I know Donald Trump does too.

When I came back from Iraq (first tour), I was diagnosed with "Combat Stress Disorder". At that time, the military was trying to distinguish between full-blown PTSD and what I call "PTSD lite". The idea is that some people exhibit signs of PTSD, but then the signs diminish after a few months (3-6). This type of disorder is very akin to "Adjustment Disorder", where a person has a hard time adjusting back to normal life (if any life in the military can be called normal!).

It is my opinion that if I hadn't deployed again so soon after my first (just under 18 months) that my mind would have been able to heal, and I would have been able to handle my second deployment a little better. As it is, I feel like it was the same as letting a sports player play too soon after an injury. Also, the second deployment was much worse than the first (as in what I saw and went through).

 

[Sapper Woody]

Very informative Sapper. The problem that arises for Trump and so many Christians and their selective empathy is that people view it as fake if you can't muster up the same type empathy for all others.

Zaac, I don't have a good answer as to Trump's empathy towards other situations and people. What I do know though, is that his empathy towards vets seemed sincere. Even the tone he used was one of empathy. Instead of the "berserker-turned-politician" voice he normally uses, he was very subdued and down to earth.

 

[Zaac]

Zaac, I don't have a good answer as to Trump's empathy towards other situations and people.

Sapper, it's not just Trump anymore. It's this whole disgusting following that he's revved up by following the Fox News-inspired GOP playbook.

What I do know though, is that his empathy towards vets seemed sincere.

Then perhaps there is still hope for him. Kinda makes it difficult to believe when you're "empathizing" one minute, and displaying a disgust for any of humanity who don't meet a certain standard the next. Like his donations to veteran causes, it comes across as fake and without substance and possibly even illegal.

Even the tone he used was one of empathy. Instead of the "berserker-turned-politician" voice he normally uses, he was very subdued and down to earth.

I think he's an excellent conman who knows how to dupe people. I would like to believe his sincerity. But when he jumps right back to making allegations about Clinton being unfaithful to her husband just because he likes to keep stuff going, it makes it hard if not impossible to believe ANYTHING he says.

He's playing games and simply has not been a nice person since he's been doing the GOP Fox News-trot.



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[Zaac]

Zaac, I don't have a good answer as to Trump's empathy towards other situations and people. What I do know though, is that his empathy towards vets seemed sincere. Even the tone he used was one of empathy. Instead of the "berserker-turned-politician" voice he normally uses, he was very subdued and down to earth.

Also Sapper, I think you might be one of the few veterans who were not offended by his words. The more times I hear them, the more it reinforces in my mind that this man is not fit to be President and definitely not fit to be Commander- in-Chief of our armed forces.

Words matter. And with the number of veterans who commit suicide daily, why on earth would the candidate for President of a major political party make any comment that might even imply that he thinks veterans are weak?

How many folks does he know who on the 4th of July or any other holiday with fireworks hides themselves in their basement with their guns because the sounds remind them of what they've experienced? Or who just about lose it when they hear a car backfire?

I've gotten into relationships with lots of veterans through nouethic counseling. And one of the reasons they don't come forward and internalize a lot of the trauma and PTSD that leads to suicide or them shooting up a mall is the stigma that gets attached to them.

And in the midst of many trying to keep that stigma off them, this man has the audacity to come out and even imply that they might be weak because they can't mentally handle seeing their friends blown up or having to shoot and kill people?

He's undisciplined and would be a threat to the security of the country. He is not fit to lead IMO.

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[righteousdude2]

Awesome post Woody. Let me applaud you for pointing out something that the media has been doing ever since Trump officially got the nod. THEY ARE TWISTING AND DISTIRTING THE TRUTH AND FACTS TO MAKE HIM LOOK UNFIT FOR THE OFFICE.

Like you, I see a very sensative man. A man who honestly wants to do better for America, because like most of us, he loves this country.

There is one member on this board that is posting a lot of OP's that would put him in the same class as those in the liberal media. There is also a woman running for POTUS who can lie with a straight face, and it is for this very reason, the Trump movement must win. We need to put an end to the intentional distortion of truth and facts that this nation has manifested without reservation.

Again. Thanks for putting the facts on another purposeful attempt to smear a man who loves those who fought bravely for this country. A man that loves America more than himself!

 

[righteousdude2]

As one nationally known pastor said, this election is really between two undesirable individuals. But, when it comes to one being BRASH, prideful, loud, insulting and bombastic, he'd pick that candidate over the one who can't tell the truth if her life depended upon it. He does not want another sneaky, liar running the country. I think it is clear who his choice is.

 

[Zaac]

Awesome post Woody. Let me applaud you for pointing out something that the media has been doing ever since Trump officially got the nod. THEY ARE TWISTING AND DISTIRTING THE TRUTH AND FACTS TO MAKE HIM LOOK UNFIT FOR THE OFFICE.

Like you, I see a very sensative man. A man who honestly wants to do better for America, because like most of us, he loves this country.

There is one member on this board that is posting a lot of OP's that would put him in the same class as those in the liberal media. There is also a woman running for POTUS who can lie with a straight face, and it is for this very reason, the Trump movement must win. We need to put an end to the intentional distortion of truth and facts that this nation has manifested without reservation.

Again. Thanks for putting the facts on another purposeful attempt to smear a man who loves those who fought bravely for this country. A man that loves America more than himself!

This has got to be a joke post.

 

[Zaac]

As one nationally known pastor said, this election is really between two undesirable individuals. But, when it comes to one being BRASH, prideful, loud, insulting and bombastic, he'd pick that candidate over the one who can't tell the truth if her life depended upon it. He does not want another sneaky, liar running the country. I think it is clear who his choice is.

Whatever that thing is that Trump has that makes him say about Clinton what is actually true about him must be contagious.

 

[InTheLight]

As one nationally known pastor said [...] he'd pick that candidate over the one who can't tell the truth if her life depended upon it. He does not want another sneaky, liar running the country. I think it is clear who his choice is.

The unsubtle, openly lying candidate?

 

[Salty]

This is true to me, as well; to a point. There are some people capable of enough empathy to almost truly understand. But what I tell people is, "I don't need you to understand. I need you to be understanding." ...

A very enlightening statement
I trust I shall never forget your very reasonable request.

It would be my honor to meet you in person - this side in glory!

 

[Zaac]

A very enlightening statement
I trust I shall never forget your very reasonable request.

It would be my honor to meet you in person - this side in glory!

His statement is the essence of empathy personified. And that very same thing is all that several folks have asked for in lieu of the policing issues in this country, but to the scoffs and derision of many in the GOP.

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