Just to excuse yourself from God's Sabbath - to what lengths will a man go?
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Downsizing the Ten Commandments
- Thread starter BobRyan
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
DHK said:
Red Herring again DHK?
Did God say "Crossing the red see is FOR MANKIND" Mark 2:27?? No!
Did God say "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND Cross the Red Sea" Isaiah 66??? No!
Did God ssay at the time He created Adam "AND God BLESSED the crossing of the Red Sea and made that act a sanctified and holy thing to be honored on the SEVENTH day of the WEEK"??? Gen 2:4??? No!
Red herrings and rabbit trails as your "defense" DHK?
Come on - be serious.
In Christ,
Bob
I am quite serious Bob. They are as much a red herring and a rabbit trail as you lead us on every time you quote that passage from Isa.66. That has nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath today, and yet you use it all the time. It is simply a red herring. If you want to start a topic on the Millennial Kingdom do so, but why bring that red herring into this thread?BobRyan said:
Before you start throwing around false accusations you better get your facts right. I will give you a chance to redeem yourself. Find some quotes where I said that God sanctified Sunday and hallowed it. Did I say that? I hope you have proof of this slander. Then you can retract the accusation of calling me god. For I don't believe either of what you have accused me of. Neither have I said such.Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Bob said of DHK's ploy regarding the command to cross the Red Sea -
Red Herring again DHK?
Did God say "Crossing the red see is FOR MANKIND" Mark 2:27?? No!
Did God say "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND Cross the Red Sea" Isaiah 66??? No!
Did God ssay at the time He created Adam "AND God BLESSED the crossing of the Red Sea and made that act a sanctified and holy thing to be honored on the SEVENTH day of the WEEK"??? Gen 2:4??? No!
Red herrings and rabbit trails as your "defense" DHK?
Come on - be serious.
#1. In all that you never addressed the points listed above yet they show your argument to be totally empty. The point remains.
#2. The text in Isaiah 66 SHOWS the Pre-Cross SCOPE defined for the Sabbath (unless you want to claim that Isaiah was written AFTER the Cross).
#3. Your argument above seems to be that you admit that you will be keeping Sabbath some day - just not today. That hardly fits with a "ended at the cross" model and NONE of it fits with your "never intended for anyone but jews" model. All your arguments have collapsed.
in Christ,
Bob
Red Herring again DHK?
Did God say "Crossing the red see is FOR MANKIND" Mark 2:27?? No!
Did God say "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND Cross the Red Sea" Isaiah 66??? No!
Did God ssay at the time He created Adam "AND God BLESSED the crossing of the Red Sea and made that act a sanctified and holy thing to be honored on the SEVENTH day of the WEEK"??? Gen 2:4??? No!
Red herrings and rabbit trails as your "defense" DHK?
Come on - be serious.
DHK said:
#1. In all that you never addressed the points listed above yet they show your argument to be totally empty. The point remains.
#2. The text in Isaiah 66 SHOWS the Pre-Cross SCOPE defined for the Sabbath (unless you want to claim that Isaiah was written AFTER the Cross).
#3. Your argument above seems to be that you admit that you will be keeping Sabbath some day - just not today. That hardly fits with a "ended at the cross" model and NONE of it fits with your "never intended for anyone but jews" model. All your arguments have collapsed.
in Christ,
Bob
DHK said:
Is66 speaks of the Sabbath (Seventh Day -- the 'Jews sabbath') being feasted today, the Gospel era or New Earth. That, is the correct, truth, dear DHK.
I'm afraid we have not seen that Scripture come true YET.
DHK said:
GE:
I'm glad to have read this post, but am afraid I would be dishonest to retract - not until I have heard from you what you practice every week of your life - if your words correspond with your deeds. I am even prepared at this very moment to retract and to apologise - in advance - conditionally though that I might learn your profession and life agree in this regard.
And with respect to this same post of DHK's -- is it not very much an acknowledgement it is God only who sanctifies the Sabbath? If it is God then, it is not 'set apart' for anyone but God -- not for the Jews. In DHK's manner of speech, God never gave the Sabbath to the Jews; He made it for Himself. Therefore the Sabbath will last as long as it is God's pleasure.
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
The fulness of the Gentiles has not yet come. Israel is still in a state of blindness. She has been set on a shelf by God, so to speak. Thus the Sabbath is no longer in effect. Nether are the feasts or Temple worship, as there is no Temple.
Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
It is plain to see that the Sabbath was given to Israel, and only to Israel and to her generations forever. But Israel are not the chosen people of God right now. If they want to be saved they must be saved through the shed blood of Christ like any other Gentile, like any other person. God is calling out a nation for himself, not through Israel. The Sabbath is no longer in effect.
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Peter writing to Christians tells them that we are an holy nation, not the nation of Israel. We are not compelled to keep the Sabbath.
I never said that Sunday was hallowed or sanctified. You need to withdraw your words on the basis of what you say, not on the basis of what I do. Unless you can find a quote where I said such, you simply lied.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
indeed we have YET to see "ALL mankind coming before God to Worship from Sabbath to Sabbath" as Isaiah 66 PREDICTS we will all do.
And as Romans 9 and 11 state the promises of God WILL be fulfilled EVEN the ones given in Isaiah 66 - but they will be fulfilled in context of "ALL ISRAEL" for they are not Israel who are merely children of literal lineage by the flesh.
The key point for Isaiah 66 is that the Pre-Cross OT STATED scope for the Sabbath as INTENDED by God is given as "ALL MANKIND".
And as Mark 2:27 points out it had the SAME SCOPE at its origin when it was MADE "the Sabbath was MADE for Mankind".
(I have been using more BLUE in the Bible quote section since DHK says RED is not appreciate by some).
It is pretty hard to argue that the OT authors DID NOT preach about an "ALL MANKIND" scope for the Sabbath when we are SEEING it in Isaiah 66.
And it is pretty hard to turn a blind eye to the SAME author teaching about the BLESSING of God upon non-Jews In the OT who "Kept the Sabbath" in Isaiah 56.
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Quote:
The benefit of this form of rejecting Christ’s Sabbath Commandment “made for MANKIND” (Mark 2:27) is that it admits to two important truths.
#1. The Sabbath commandment of Christ DOES point to the Friday-evening to Saturday-evening time of the week.
#2. The Sabbath commandment of Christ can NOT be edited.
So in some ways this is a step forward.
So Let’s spend a few minutes exploring the fallacies in the argument of NINE Commandment Christians.
#1. The Bible speaks of the “TEN COMMANDMENTS explicitly – never the “NINE Commandments” so some edit of scripture is still needed.
#2. Christ said that the Sabbath was “MADE FOR MANKIND” Mark 2:27. In fact in Isaiah 66 God makes this prediction
“From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship”
The question is -- can you simply take what the Bible calls the "TEN COMMANDMEN TS" (and the bible proivdes this identifying language for us time after time in scripture) and then EDIT it down to "the NINE Commandments" at the dictates of man-made tradition?
In Christ,
Bob
The benefit of this form of rejecting Christ’s Sabbath Commandment “made for MANKIND” (Mark 2:27) is that it admits to two important truths.
#1. The Sabbath commandment of Christ DOES point to the Friday-evening to Saturday-evening time of the week.
#2. The Sabbath commandment of Christ can NOT be edited.
So in some ways this is a step forward.
So Let’s spend a few minutes exploring the fallacies in the argument of NINE Commandment Christians.
#1. The Bible speaks of the “TEN COMMANDMENTS explicitly – never the “NINE Commandments” so some edit of scripture is still needed.
#2. Christ said that the Sabbath was “MADE FOR MANKIND” Mark 2:27. In fact in Isaiah 66 God makes this prediction
“From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship”
The question is -- can you simply take what the Bible calls the "TEN COMMANDMEN TS" (and the bible proivdes this identifying language for us time after time in scripture) and then EDIT it down to "the NINE Commandments" at the dictates of man-made tradition?
In Christ,
Bob
Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.music4Him said:
Thanks for letting me know of the wrong reference Music.
But the point stands nevertheless. If we sought to prove our theology the way that Bob does we could easily come to the conclusion that the Bible teaches that there is no God. Bob doesn't quote full verses, and avoids the context just to make his point.
My daddy (Bap. Evang.) always taught me to always read a little ahead and below a quote a preacher makes out of the bible to be sure he's right. For the fact that DHK touched on. SO far Bob is hitting the mark just fine. Only on thing that I stress even if you do keep the sabbath be aware not t use it as an excuse not to help someone in need. Even on a Sunday if you see someone broke down while going to church... do you pass them by and say we'll get our Sunday go to chuch suit dirty or I just don't have time to help them or I'll be late for church.
Funny that we might all be guilty of this and never took time to stop for a minuet and remember what God did for us.
Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Remember the sabbath day... true, but Jesus put a new spin on it didn't he. The same as in Bobs verse that he quotes in Mark 2:27 start in verse 26.
Funny that we might all be guilty of this and never took time to stop for a minuet and remember what God did for us.
Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Remember the sabbath day... true, but Jesus put a new spin on it didn't he. The same as in Bobs verse that he quotes in Mark 2:27 start in verse 26.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Agreed - Sabbath is a day for mercy and for worship.
My point was to address the solution of "all but one of the Ten Commandments".
Typically that is either done by inserting a made up rule of the form "whatever is not repeated is automatically deleted in scripture" or it is done by "downsizing the Ten to Nine".
In this case - we are looking at downsizing scripture's "TEN Commandments" to "NINE Commandments".
In Christ,
Bob
My point was to address the solution of "all but one of the Ten Commandments".
Typically that is either done by inserting a made up rule of the form "whatever is not repeated is automatically deleted in scripture" or it is done by "downsizing the Ten to Nine".
In this case - we are looking at downsizing scripture's "TEN Commandments" to "NINE Commandments".
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
DHK said:
Well I don't know about your Prov 14:1 reference but I DO KNOW that Mark 2:27 Actually says "The Sabbath was MADE for Mankind"
AND I know that Mark 2:28 ALSO SAYS "The Son of Man IS LORD of the Sabbath".
Not sure how deep you want to dig that hole for yourself.
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan said:
I see what you say and heres one more point. I hear people say, "We ought to read what Jesus did also and use it as an example on how we ought to live our lives.
Does everyone agree with this? I do.
Mark 1:21 And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.
Mark 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue:
Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk 6:6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
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Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Are we Gentiles?.. When did they desire for those words to be preached again?... Aha! The next sabbath!
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