Dr. Ergun Caner Accepts Four-Pointers

[Allan]

If a seminary requires that graduates attest to certain beliefs, well I suppose that is the seminary's prerogative (but I think that affect accreditation in some way) as long as the seminarian is aware of those requirements. I personally do not care much for Bible Colleges or seminaries that feel it is their duty to stamp out replicated scholars.

I summarily agree here.

But this thread has nothing to do with any of that. It has to do with irresponsible behavior and irrational statements by a man that is in a position to hurt many people with his invectives.

He is NOW in a position but was doing this same stuff before that.

I can perfectly understand his desire to defend his friend Johnny Hunt from criticism, but he should have done so in a civil, rational way, such as would become a man of God or the President of a College Seminary.

If he is a Semiary President or not, being a man of God I agree he should conduct himself in a more decisive christian manner. But on that same note so should those who oppose him. My thoughts go back James White and his friend with regard to the 'debate' that was to be held. All of them were guilty of such non-sense.

Give me a good example of that happening. I would like to know about it. I'm not talking about an angry calvinist, like L.R. Shelton, or myself, condemning arminians and their kin in a heated rage. Tell me about a calvinist at Southern, or Calvin College, or Westminster, et al., that behaves in such a manner as Caner has and I will protest for his resignation immediately!

He wasn't President as of yet but there are Dr's and professors (men who shape the minds and theological ideology) who have done the same. Just as both sides have those who are more verbal than they aught to be (in the wrong way) so there are those who go about it in a God fearing way. BTW - a heated rage is no excuse for such things.

I'm not saying Caner should be excused but I am saying don't pretend that he is the only person who does it (putting down those who do not share the same theological views they share).

 

[Tom Butler]

Really, how can anyone take "Dr." Caner seriously. Which makes him all the more a laughing stock, a by-word. I don't understand why he's not been asked to resign.

Why should he, when he is doing exactly what is expected of him at Liberty Seminary? Dr. Caner's theology lines up with a huge majority of Baptists. His flamboyant in-your-face style may be a turnoff to some, but you can be sure that a lot of folks eat it up, particularly those who agree with his viewpoint.

We five-pointers need to remember this his is the majority view among Baptists, and ours is the minority.

I'm not happy about it, but it's still true.

 

[Allan]

Why should he, when he is doing exactly what is expected of him at Liberty Seminary? Dr. Caner's theology lines up with a huge majority of Baptists. His flamboyant in-your-face style may be a turnoff to some, but you can be sure that a lot of folks eat it up, particularly those who agree with his viewpoint.

We five-pointers need to remember this his is the majority view among Baptists, and ours is the minority.

I'm not happy about it, but it's still true.

While this is true brother, Some of us who hold to his view are not proud of his particular 'style'.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

But on that same note so should those who oppose him. My thoughts go back James White and his friend with regard to the 'debate' that was to be held. All of them were guilty of such non-sense.

I am curious to know exactly what "nonsense" you think Dr. Ascol and Dr. White were guilty of. I followed the whole thing a little bit...but admit that perhaps I missed what nonsense they committed.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Allan]

You followed the WHOLE THING...a little bit???

ok, that aside;
Name calling, condesending remarks, flippant retorts, and accusations.
You can get on many different websites and read their e-mails that were by agreement supposed to be between them (breech of trust by James White).
You can probably still go to Calvinistgadfly.com and read many if not most of them but he did not reveal all of the e-mails at the time. but now that it is over I think it may have them all or at least there are some others who do have them.

 

[Tom Butler]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Butler
Why should he, when he is doing exactly what is expected of him at Liberty Seminary? Dr. Caner's theology lines up with a huge majority of Baptists. His flamboyant in-your-face style may be a turnoff to some, but you can be sure that a lot of folks eat it up, particularly those who agree with his viewpoint.

While this is true brother, Some of us who hold to his view are not proud of his particular 'style'.

And I appreciate you for that. Your posts on this board will demonstrate that it is possible to debate difficult topics in a civil manner.

I think Dr. Caner is capable of civility, too. I wonder sometimes if his style is designed to maintain his "pitbull" image.

 

[Allan]

I think Dr. Caner is capable of civility, too. I wonder sometimes if his style is designed to maintain his "pitbull" image.

On that I greatly wonder at time as well.

 

[Russ]

Looks like I registered here in April of '05 and forgot about it, hense this is my first post here...


I grew up Baptist; 100% Southern Baptist with my grandmother teaching me along with my pastor(s).


Pastors Smith and Pollard (Yes, Dr. Frank Pollard was one of my pastors while growing up in the 60's before he became president of Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary and later president of the Mississippi Baptist Convention.) along with the teachings from my grandmother were definately Calvinistic.

Whilst, Pastors Smith and Dr. Pollard offered a valuable influence in my life, my Grandmother offered the most influence of any one living person save my wife of 35+ years.

My grandmother knew absolutely nothing of who Calvin was, nor did she know of Luther or Wesley or Spurgeon or Augustine or Zwingli; she simply knew the Bible. She knew what it taught and she taught me.


Later, many years later, I was looking for a new church. I knew not of the teachins of these men either, but with other unmentioned circumstances, I blurted out blindly that I was Calvinistic to the pastor while he was visiting at my house. We became good friends and I soon realized, after I began to delve deeply into the teachings of Augustine along with many others of the early Church fathers from Dr. Phillip Schaff's colllection of the Ante-Nicene Fathers and the History of the Christian Church along with the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers. These detais in Dr. Schaff's writings and editing were backed up by independt research and by reading various translations of the City of God, for instance. This pastor wound up giving me a whole collection of Spurgeon's Sermons. May God bless him for ever and ever, Amen.

Later, I started studing the words of men like Luther, Zwingli, Calvin and Beza along with many, many more and now, even just as a lay person, I have the start of a grand library of Christian literature. Hmmm... I could have purchased a new Lexus with the money that I've spent on books over the past few years. I enjoy the books that teach me about God and His Son-Jesus many, many times more than I would have ever enjoyed that Lexus.

Now I ask: "What happened to the fundimental roots of the Baptist, have their eyes been turned by Satan? What happened to the basic teachings of the Bible that they are no longer being taught?"


I fear that many of those who profess by mouth that they are His, well they'll be greatly dissapointed when He tells them that He doesn't know them just as He told the virgins (Matthew xxv:1~12) and that Jesus told the apostles that many will call me Lord and claim that they did works in my name, yet He will tell them that He never knew them. (Matthew vii:21~24) This same sentiment is echoed in Psalms i:6; II Timothy ii:19; and In I Corinthians viii:3.


The same is admonished to us in I Timothy v:12. "And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labor among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;"


I am your Brother in Christ, A simple Child of God.

Russ


P.S.
Nice to be here, sorry I forgot that I registered here.

 

[Allan]

Glad to have you here Russ, and welcome brother :applause: :thumbsup:

I am glad you have found what suits you regarding theology however the Baptist 'roots' you speak of is a little off kilter.

Baptists as a group have been around about or around 400 years and Calvinism in this Baptist group has only been in it about 300 or so years. When the SBC was formed though many were Calvinists (and thank God for them) some were not. It is a misnomer to state Baptist have always been Calvinistic or that our roots are Calvinist whether as a whole or in the SBC.

No one has left the truth, what we have are differing VIEWS of the mechanics of these truths or how these biblical Truths play themselves out.

Anyhoo, Glad to have you here brother.


Ps. Just to be sure - You aren't stating that those who do not share you personal Calvinistic View are actually not saved...are you??

 

[go2church]

"I can not believe that Dr. Falwell, regardless of his feelings toward calvinism, can associate himself with such a loose canon. Jerry did not build his ministry on such nonsense."


If that isn't the funniest thing I have heard in a while it is right up there! Is there a bigger walking loose canon? Robertson perhaps, but Jerry and his kids are right up there!

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

You followed the WHOLE THING...a little bit???

Ok...bad choice of words...guilty as charged. I was tired...sorry.

I have followed many of the posts on the Founders blog and most of them show Tom to be very gracious in how he responds. Many of the other commenters there, including Drs. Caner, however, are a different story.

Joseph Botwinick