Dr. Jack Schaap thinks sin is a joke

Let's say I punch person A in the nose...pre-Christ. That's a sin.

I get saved.

Years later, I punch person B in the nose.

That's a different sin. The circumstances were different, the victim was different. Was the "act" the same? Yes...But that's not the same sin! The "person A" sin was forgiven.

 

Eternal salvation is of Christ, he bought us with His blood and that is Christs' work alone.

Sanctification is also by the grace of Christ living in us but we choose to what degree we allow Him to, this is our work. To the degree in which we allow the Holy Ghost to work in our lives, to the degree in which we suffer for Christ, to the degree that we perform good works, to the degree we resist temptation, to the degree we flee from the devil, we will be rewarded. The rewards will be good for good and bad for bad.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." - 2 Corinthians 5:10​

 

Let me get this straight. You think that once a person is saved, none of the sins he committed before salvation can ever be committed again? So if a person gets saved at age 40 and has been a liar, cheat, brawler and gossip, then after he gets saved he will never again lie, cheat, brawl or gossip? Where is your Scripture for this?

You are making a dangerous mistake here by confusing the sin nature with individual sins. When a person is saved, what is taken and cast into the depths of the sea is not his sin nature but his sins. We each still have a sin nature and can commit any sin in the Book, even after we get saved. We will not lose that sin nature until we reach Heaven. As born again Paul said in Rom. 7:18, "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing."

 

I cannot say I ever returned to the sins I committed before Salvation.

David said 'If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me'. Paul said 'old things are passed away...'

I have sinned since salvation, but not the same sins before salvation.

I drank alcohol before salvation... I did many drugs including kiloweed...

My wife can attest to the fact that I no longer do those things. They have been removed from my life.

I have been around many drunks after my conversion. I have had them offer me alcohol and drugs. I had no desire to return to that lifestyle. Why? Because God took those desires and habits and cast them away.

I cannot see how those who are naming the name of Christ deny that the Christian will not return to his sin.

It is the dog who returns to the vomit, not the one who truly has been convinced that the filth is bad for him.

 

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

HBSMN,

you're using this thread to get back up on your same old soapbox that I see you on around here all the time.

This thread had absolutely nothing to do with pedophilia, the sermon being referenced throughout also had nothing to do with pedophilia, and I don't get why you keep bringing it up.



God does not say that He will cast our ability to sin into the deepest ocean....He says He will remember it no more - it will be as far away from His memory as the deepest ocean and etc. This does not mean that we can't ever commit that particular sin again.

And as I said before - not trusting someone to work with kids does not automatically imply that that someone is or was a pedophile. There are other reasons to not trust a person. (not everything is about pedophilia)

 

Again, show me where one person in the Word of God who placed their faith in Jesus Christ returned to the same sins they had committed before they placed their faith in Him.

Show me where they sinned a certain sin before salvation, and then the same sin after salvation.

If you can provide definite Scripture to this effect, I will concede defeat in this matter.

What you are telling me is that Paul could continue to persecute and kill Christians after his Salvation experience, that the woman at the well could continue in adultery after her salvation experience.

Hogwash!

 

sir, this is not really a fair request.....most salvation stories in the Bible either begin from the moment of the person's conversion, or end at the moment of their conversion. Obviously Paul did not continue to persecute Christians....he WAS a Christian after he was converted.......but he had committed other sins before salvation which were not recorded.

you are the one making this assertion, so it is up to you to give Biblical proof of what you believe. So far you've only given Scripture about what God will and will not choose to remember.

 

God does say that He will cast our sins into the depths of the sea. Micah 7:19

He will remember them no more Hebrews 10:17

If the sin of drunkenness can be held against one who was a drunk before salvation, then that defeats the above verse

Where is the Scripture that says we can commit the same sins we were in before salvation?

 

As I recall I also quoted that a man in Christ is a new creature and old things are passed away.

As I recall, I asserted that I people in the Word of God who were saved did not continue in the sin they were in before salvation. I find no record that they did... only that some committed sins afterward.

 

I'll try again...you can't or won't deal with this...

or

Let me get this straight....according to your (ahem) logic...

Did you ever say something in anger that was not right before your Salvation? Betcha did.

In all your years of being saved...have you ever said something in anger that was not right?

Betcha have.

Case closed.

And with that, I'm out...sorry, gang, for participating in this hijack. The discussion's fruitful, but unfortunately we have given legs to a Spamderson thread. My bad.

 

Can't deny saying something in anger that was not right when I was lost.

Can say I haven't said something in anger that was not right after salvation.

You lose that bet.

 

It is pride before salvation, and it is prideful to say you don't sin after salvation... so there is the proof.

To say you can't sin places yourself in Christ's place.. .Only he was perfect... you are the first Christian I have ever met that believes they are perfect...

 

I did not say I have not sinned since salvation. You are misquoting me. I said I have not committed the same sins that I committed before salvation.

Try again, tiny

 

Instead of trying to prove me wrong with your own logic, try using the Word of God to prove me wrong. Show me Scripture where one sinned certain sins before salvation and the same sins after salvation.

 

So do you actually believe that this means that your sin nature has passed away? Do you understand what I mean when I say "sin nature?" Do you understand the Biblical difference between "sin" and "sin nature" (often called "flesh" in the Bible)? I mentioned this before and you did not answer it.

1 John ch. 1: "8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

 

Here you go: Jer. 17:9--"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

Now, if your heart is deceitful before salvation, and you have the same sinful heart after salvation (and you do), then you can lie both before and after salvation.

Friend, you have invented a new doctrine. I have never heard a preacher say what you are saying, I have never read a Christian book (theology, commentary, Christian life, etc.) that advocates it. You should be very careful that you are not deceiving yourself. It is extremely unlikely that only you could come up with this, and all the wise preachers of this day would miss it.

 

I know the difference between sin and the sin nature, John.

Let's look at the verses you just posted in the light of what some in this room seem to be implying...

1 John ch. 1: "8 If we say that we have not sinned the same sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our same sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our same sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned the same sins, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Paints an entirely different picture than that which John wrote, doesn't it?

As I said, I have not drunk, nor have I smoked drugs since my salvation experience. If what John wrote was to mean how I wrote it, then I am lying when I say I have not done these things even though I truly have not.

No, John was not saying we would continue in the same sins, only that we would sin.

 

If the heart is deceitful before salvation it is changed after salvation. Christ changes the heart. Scripture clearly shows that.

Else Paul lied when he said old things are passed away.

Else the one who was running naked amongst the tombs naked was not clothed and in his right mind after salvation.

 

Ok, so are you saying you sin, but not the same type of sins before you were saved.?..
Did you have pride before you were saved... pride is a sin...That was Satan's downfalll...

All sin is based in pride, so you sin.