Draw all men to myself

Talk about made up scripture!

 

I don't think they were saved either. However, I do believe the price was paid. What did they lack? Faith.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

It is a free gift, (salvation by grace), that is received through faith.

 

Hey.... at least I learned something from you bob! lol

 

Amen! And God is the author and finisher of our faith!

 

You should be so happy that you taught a calvinist something. You really spanked my tail today bob.

 

Make up scripture and then blame it on someone else. I have known a lot who do that.

You are all tail.

 

If I purchase a gift for you, when does it become yours? When you receive it, right? If you do not receive it, you do not have it. That does not mean it has not been paid for and offered to you, does it?

If I wrote you a check for $100.00, and you stuck it in a drawer somewhere, do you have $100.00 dollars?

 

Tom B.:

This does not take a great exegete in order to clearly understand this peice of scripture.

...reconciling the world unto himself... - This 'reconciling' is a present tence (active) participle showing a present and on going process. Not that the world IS reconciled but is BEING reconciled. What does this have to do with the rest of the verse, simple; AS this reconciling is going on toward the world, those who WOULD BE (choose to be- ie. place Faith in) reconciled it is THEN that their tresspasses are not imputed unto them. It is simply refering to the continuing calling of God that none should perish but all (who will) come to repentence. Thus the reason Paul explains that we are ambassadors in Christs stead AS THOUGH God did beseach you, and is asking that you (who - the world) be reconciled to Himself.

God was in Christ doing this reconciling (calling) and is now in us still doing His same Calling to reconciliation.

 

That is good Allan, I like that.

 

Well... yes. :laugh:

 

In Isaiah 6 when Isaiah saw Jesus in the temple and He called Isaiah to go preach. Was Isaiah sent to call people to repent? Was he sent to make them guilty?

 

Reformed

I am pretty positive that Isaiah volenteered (chose) to go, in conjuction with God calling him...anyhoo...

He was not given the ministry of reconciliation, as we are discussion from 2 Cor 5:19 - but with due respect to your question it was both.

 

The point I'm making is that unless God has a general call that goes to every individual to repent.... He would not be just in His judgement of them. I'm sorry I thought this thread was about God calling all men.

 

:laugh:

What can I say - We disagree.

Regardless - not one person on the face of the earth will go to heaven apart form hearing the Gospel and then believing. (Exceptions are all who do not reach the "age" of accountability."

 

What part of my post says that people need not hear the gospel and believe it to be saved?

 

In post #39 I asked:
In Ro 5:18, Paul refers to the "free gift unto the justification of life." What is the free gift?

Blammo answered:
If I purchase a gift for you, when does it become yours? When you receive it, right? If you do not receive it, you do not have it. That does not mean it has not been paid for and offered to you, does it?

I respond:
But what is the gift? The passage refers to the free gift unto the justification of life. So the gift is not justification but unto justification. I'm not trying to trick anybody, here. I just want to know.

Blammo, read Allan's explanation of Romans 5:19. That's an exegesis.
Would you agree with his in post #48, or would you like to take another crack?

Allan, thanks for the exegesis. I have some questions, but in a later post

 

We were loved before the creation of the world, but it was only in Christ. In the mean time, however, I confess, that the love of God was first in point of time, and of order, too, as to God, but with respect to us, the commencement of his love has its foundation in the sacrifice of Christ. For when we contemplate God without a Mediator, we cannot conceiveof Him otherwise than as angry with us: a Mediator interposed between us, makes us feel, that He is pacified towards us. As, however, this also is necessary to be known by us — that Christ came forth to us from the fountain of God’s free mercy, the Scripture explicitly teaches both — that the anger of the Father has been appeased by the sacrifice of the Son, and that the Son has been offered up for the expiation of the sins of men on this ground — because God, exercising compassion towards them, receives them, on the ground of such a pledge, into favor 373
The whole may be summed up thus: “Wheresin is, there the anger of God is, and therefore God is not propitious to us without, or before, his blotting out our sins, by not imputing them. As our consciences cannot apprehend this benefit, otherwise than through the intervention of Christ’s sacrifice, it is not without good reason, that Paul makes that the commencement and cause of reconciliation, with regard to us.

What are the opinions on this take on it?

 

I yield to your knowledge of the Greek, and agree that God is actively in the process of reconciling sinners to himself.

I promised some questions, so here goes:
Do you define "world" as every person without exception? If so, the question arises, so how can God reconcile every person to him, when many don't want to be reconciled and refuse to choose him as Savior?

The passage seems to be making a flat statement that God is in Christ reconciling. Not attempting to reconcile, or potentially reconciling, but actually reconciling. Further, God is not imputing their trespasses to them. So we have two things going on here: Reconciling and not imputing trepasses. Who the objects of God's action? You can see the problem is "world" means everybody. It has to mean everybody is saved, no one goes to hell. So to fit with other scripture, "world" must mean something else.

You said "As this reconciling is going going on toward the world, then those who WOULD BE (choose to be-place faith in) reconciled, it is then that their trespasses are not imputed to them."

Ah, so those who are being reconciled are only those who choose to be. Not every person without exception. So "world" does not mean everybody. Further, the passage does not state that reconciling is going on toward the world. God is actually reconciling, not reconciling toward or attempting to do so.

I guess I've made more statements than asked questions. My desire is to let this passage inform my theology, not try to squeeze the passage to fit the view that I already hold.