Dreams about tsunami came to pass

[Hope of Glory]

Then say nothing. Has that occurred to you?

The teacher’s job is “Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers”, as we’re told in Titus 1:9. Convince is rebuke. Rebuke the gainsayer (those who oppose). Titus 2:15 says, “These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.” There are 4 present, active, imperative verbs in that verse. Present tense means you need to be doing it all the time; active means you (the person to whom this is speaking) need to be doing it; imperative means it’s a command. There are four things in this verse that are commanded for us to be doing: Speak, exhort, rebuke, and don’t let anyone despise you. These are not options. We’re commanded to do these things. We are to be speaking, we are to be exhorting, we are to be rebuking, and we are not to be letting anyone despise us. This word “despise” means to “think around” or “out think”. Be prepared. You might get mad when someone speaks, exhorts, rebukes, and doesn’t let you despise him, but he is obeying Titus 2:15.

I am not the only person you have come off as sarcastic to if I read this thread right.

Although I use sarcasm on occasion, just as Jesus seemed to, it was not used in this thread, as it was not appropriate.

bursting people's lottery luck theories is a non-doctrinal matter

Oh, it isn't? It's not only a matter of bad math and susceptibleness to things that are less than edifying, but when a Christian believes in "luck", then it is a doctrinal matter.

In the same manner, when someone believes in prophetic dreams, it is a doctrinal matter.

Cannot say anything good? Then why not just say nothing?

Speak, exhort, rebuke, and don’t let anyone despise you. These are not options.

 

[Darron Steele]

Okay Hope of Glory. I guess you are going to do whatever you want to do.

The other qualities in the passages I listed seem to take precedent in Scripture -- the things you seem to enjoy are taught in Scripture, but I believe that doing them must be done within a context of putting the "foundation" and attitude "fruit" first. Like you now, I enjoyed the sharp-tongued things when I was younger in the Lord, but over time, study, and experience, I came to see different priorities. Of course, I do not expect you think well of that now, but I do understand your feelings on this.

 

[Brice]

I think Darron has a valid point. There is a way to do things and in this situation the Biblical commands must be carried out with the utmost importance being paid to tone. I’ve read a lot of HOG’s posts’ and enjoy them very much, but I error on the side of caution and Darron this time.

 

[gekko]

has anyone read the thread "polarization of christianity" in the general baptist forum?

it would be good to read.
---

Jesus came with Grace AND Truth.

I see HoG is coming across with Truth - but not a whole lot of Grace.

HoG - i encourage you to speak the Truth in love. not with dissention and bitterness as it seems.

i know you dont think you've come across as bitter or reviling - but to others it seems you have.

so that is a suggestion to look at how you post and speak to others on this forum and see if a change could be made.

im trying to speak as a brother in Christ only to encourage you to look further into why people say what they say about how you have posted in this thread.

God bless.

 

[Darron Steele]

To all, including Hope of Glory.

I earlier addressed Hope of Glory's statement

The Bible is sufficient.

Yep. Too bad more people don't realize this.

and some of the other things he had posted.

I remarked

From reading your posts, I wish you seemed to more also. Do you see it as your obligation to be proactively sarcastic and so intent on causing bad feelings even when circumstances do not demand it?

From James 3:17 "the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits" (ASV)
From Galatians 5:22 "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness" (ASV).

In contrast, Ephesians 4:31 has "Never shout angrily or say things to hurt others" (ICB). Of course, I assume you are a Christian, so I assume you have had "a foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God" (ASV) per Hebrews 6:1....

This was not meant to be a personal random attack. I realized some time later that it could potentially be misunderstood as such because my point seemed vague.

My point was that the Bible itself should be enough -- I felt that the sarcasm was not needed, nor in line with the above passages in the Bible. Subsequent posts explain that in more clarity.

I apologize if to anyone at all if I came off as personally vindictive.

 

[Hope of Glory]

And I have said that no sarcasm was intended at all.

I did a thesis in college on perception, and this was one of the topics. It's also something that I think is unbiblical, and my intent was to stop a brother from being deceived.

Airline travel is perceived to be very dangerous because when one goes down, it's spectacular; hundreds dead, front pages of every newspaper, etc. Yet, it's the safest form of travel there is.

Nuclear energy is perceived as being dangerous because of the potential for disaster. Never mind that thousands upon thousands die every year from emphysema that is contracted from the burning of fossil fuel in energy plants, and never mind that the increase in cancer rates near Chernobyl were statistically almost non-existent. (Although some of the cases are quite fascinating.)

People perceive that they win more in the lottery than they spend, and this is usually attributed to whatever "lucky" ritual they use. People remember winning $17 much more than they remember spending $50+ one dollar at a time, so they perceive that they win more than they lose. (When you convince them to keep track of it, most of the time, they are convinced that you jinxed them.)

In the same way, if you dream something because of circumstances, and then similar circumstances occur, you are more open to thinking that this is further revelation from God, and then you are more open to expecting and being accepting of further "spiritual" influence. I live in a town full of New-Agers and this stuff is really big here, and I have to deal with it on a daily basis.

I would have the same reaction if someone came up and said, "Hey! I spoke in tongues last night!"

I would not say, "Good for you! I'm glad that this experience made you feel good!"

That's the teaching of pop psychology. The Lord was rebuking the disciples constantly; the Bible is full of "thou shalt nots"; the Bible is negative (according to modern standards), but it brings about positive results. That's my only intent: To prevent a fellow Christian from falling into something dangerous.

 

[Brother Bob]

Its like a mother who loses a son while He is young or maybe over in Iraq and she has a dream that He is alright. Please tell me the wrong in that mother finding comfort in her dream or should she greive herself to death. Show a little more compassion and instead of saying it is false just say God works in mysterious ways for it make not one iode what you think about the matter until you come crashing down on her.

 

[tragic_pizza]

The Bible is sufficient.

Whose interpretation thereof? Baptists only, or are other denominational interpretations
sufficient?

 

[Marcia]

I have to agree with Hope of Glory here, and I often have disagreed with him in the past. Just ask him! The person who opened the thread with the question about his wife's dreams should have been wiling and able to deal with whatever responses are posted. If he's a grown adult, as I assume he is, then he can handle it. Most of us know that posting on forums can bring disagreement.

At the same time, I also agree with posters who said we need to speak the truth in love. I think HoG was just speaking bluntly but not meanly, from what I recall. I do defend his right to speak out his view - he should not be squelched.

Re luck :I find it disturbing that a lot of Christians believe in luck. I find this to be more common than not. Believing in luck is antithetical to the biblical view.

peace,
:wavey:

 

[Hope of Glory]

I think HoG was just speaking bluntly but not meanly, from what I recall.

Yes. On the rare occasions that I do speak "meanly", I become much more verbose. Generally, if I'm trying to say something, I use as few words as possible. Even on the rare occasions that I speak "meanly", it is in response to something that is usually intentional, and even then, I use it to try to make a point and not be "mean".

With the OP, my concern was not that she took some "comfort" in the dream (after all, who has "comfort" in dreaming of a disasaster?), but that she would take it as a prophetic sign from God, and thereby open herself to further "prophetic" dreams. I've seen this lead many people down a very damaging road.

Re luck :I find it disturbing that a lot of Christians believe in luck. I find this to be more common than not. Believing in luck is antithetical to the biblical view.

Yep.

 

[Darron Steele]

Hope of Glory: the last part of your post was something that I agree with. Too many people risk many bad or catastrophic decisions by relying on extremely subjective things. Thank you for clarifying your intentions.

 

[Brother Bob]

Reminds me of an old tale I heard when I first started preaching. Someone died down one of the long valley roads and it was winter and No ordained minister was able to get to the family to console them. There was a man in the community who I think has been used to lead prayer a few times and knew some Scriptures so they asked Him to get up in front of the family at their home and say a few words to console the family. The man got up and said; "well, according to the Scriptures and according to the life Ole John here lived, He split Hell wide open". Service over!

 

[Link]

One poster said it was understandable for someone in a country that just had a tsunami to dream about another one. I can understand the skepticism. Skepticism is a very human thing to have.

Think about it from my perspective. My wife started talking about her dreams of a tsunami and how she believed God showed her that these thigns were coming. I believe God can speak to my wife. But on the other hand, the idea did go through my mind that Indonesia had already had a tsunami and this was a dream. What were the chances of another one hitting if God weren't talking to her? Then another one hit.

Actually, when my wife did get some specifics in her dreams. She dreamed about tsunamis hitting near Serang, Padang, and North Sumatra. I'm hoping these dreams were given as a warning to pray so that they do not happen.

 

[Link]

There are many "prophecies" told daily, and when one of them comes to pass, it's "see! I told you so!" When something is likely to happen, dreaming about it or predicting it is not very unlikely. In fact, I've read many new sources and science sources that have "prophecied" more tsunamis in that area.

I know someone who is terrified of flying. He always predicts airline disasters. When one happens, he thinks he predicted it.

I'm just saying, be careful about accepting something from the subconcious mind as being from God..

You need to study your Bible a bit more closely and believe it.

The Bible says "Despise not prophesyings." What are you doing right now?

Also, the Bible clearly shows us that God has spoken to numerous peole through dreams. In fact, the Bible shows us that there will be dreams and visions in 'the last days' a time period which we are still in right now.

 

[music4Him]

Actually, when my wife did get some specifics in her dreams. She dreamed about tsunamis hitting near Serang, Padang, and North Sumatra. I'm hoping these dreams were given as a warning to pray so that they do not happen.

Praise God for her gifting! :flower: I believe the Lord will give warning dreams I also believe He will speak to us through our dreams. At the class I recently took it was said that it would be good to do intercessery(sp?) prayer. Also if she is not doing so already tell her to start a dream journal and write them down. Numbers, colors, animals...ect and any thing thats odd or stands out.

Acts 2:16-18
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

 

[Hope of Glory]

You need to study your Bible a bit more closely and believe it.

I could say the same thing to you.

The Bible says "Despise not prophesyings." What are you doing right now?

1 Thessalonians 5:20 it talking about forth-telling, not fore-telling.

Also if she is not doing so already tell her to start a dream journal and write them down.

That's what I told people to do when they played the lottery. When they saw that they didn't really win more than they spent, the said that I jinxed them.

But, I would suggest the same thing.

 

[TaterTot]

I dont normally get into these type experiences, but I wont discount it either. I have had 2 dreams in my past that I thought might be warnings from God. They they did not come to pass, even though it looked like they could have very easily - maybe because I prayed, maybe not. I am not confident enough in it to say that "yes, it was God." But I recently ran across this in the book of Job. After Job's 3 "friends" had given their discourses, Elihu steps forward to speak.
14 For God does speak—now one way, now another— though man may not perceive it. 15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on men as they slumber in their beds,
16 he may speak in their ears and terrify them with warnings, 17 to turn man from wrongdoing and keep him from pride, 18 to preserve his soul from the pit, his life from perishing by the sword.

After reading all of Elihu's words, then God's response to him as opposed to the response toward the other "friends", it seems that God's favor was cast upon Elihu's message.

So that is part of why I wont discount it if someone wonders if dreams are from God.

 

[TaterTot]

I dont normally get into these type experiences, but I wont discount it either. I have had 2 dreams in my past that I thought might be warnings from God. They they did not come to pass, even though it looked like they could have very easily - maybe because I prayed, maybe not. I am not confident enough in it to say that "yes, it was God." But I recently ran across this in the book of Job. After Job's 3 "friends" had given their discourses, Elihu steps forward to speak.
14 For God does speak—now one way, now another— though man may not perceive it. 15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on men as they slumber in their beds,
16 he may speak in their ears and terrify them with warnings, 17 to turn man from wrongdoing and keep him from pride, 18 to preserve his soul from the pit, his life from perishing by the sword.

After reading all of Elihu's words, then God's response to him as opposed to the response toward the other "friends", it seems that God's favor was cast upon Elihu's message.

So that is part of why I wont discount it if someone wonders if dreams are from God.

 

[TaterTot]

I am usually skeptical of these type experiences, but I wont discount it either. I have had 2 dreams in my past that I thought might be warnings from God. They they did not come to pass, even though the details leading up to the events in the dreams did happen. Maybe that was because I prayed, maybe not. I am not confident enough in it to say that "yes, it was God." I did cling to Him during those times and I know that was a positive thing. But I recently ran across this in the book of Job. After Job's 3 "friends" had given their discourses, Elihu steps forward to speak.
14 For God does speak—now one way, now another— though man may not perceive it. 15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on men as they slumber in their beds,
16 he may speak in their ears and terrify them with warnings, 17 to turn man from wrongdoing and keep him from pride, 18 to preserve his soul from the pit, his life from perishing by the sword.

After reading all of Elihu's words, then God's response to him as opposed to the response toward the other "friends", it seems that God's favor was cast upon Elihu's message.

So that is part of why I wont discount it when someone wonders if dreams are from God.

 

[Link]

I1 Thessalonians 5:20 it talking about forth-telling, not fore-telling.

Your statement here is not backed up by scripture or reason.

Prophesying CAN be forth-telling. Look at the two examples we have of Agabus' prophecies. Both were 'foretelling' as well as forthtelling.

You do not have the authority to limit what the Spirit might want to say and prevent Him from foretelling the future. And you certainly don't have any scripture that says He will not do so.