Drinking Alcohol Moderately

[annsni]

There is no way my former pastor of singles & worship could have witnessed to those guys while drinking beer. Can you see someone with a beer in their hands and witness to others?

Yep, I have. And I've seen lives changed by the testimony and witness of those holding a beer in their hand.


[quote[It is hard for me to listen to things a person who is drinking beer may be saying because he is not apart from the world.[/quote]

Where does it say in the Bible that alcohol is part of the world? If that's so, then so is meat and clothing and so many other things. Hey - even the internet is part of the "world".

This really ruins your testimony.

Only if your testimony is based on alcohol.

 

[annsni]

I know that the wine Jesus provided at the wedding was in fact non-alcoholic wine. It is clear that people drank a lot. If it had been alcoholic, some people would have gotten drunk. Some very skinny people get drunk even after just 1 drink.

Contextually, non-alcoholic wine could not be a consideration in that text. It was quite clearly alcoholic wine.

For those who think it is legalistic to encourage Christians to not drink, please read http://www.james-dave.com/alcoholfaq.html.

Legalistic means making man's rules God's rules. It may be wise in our culture for men not to drink but it is legalistic to make it a rule when God has not.

Distillation had not been invented yet in the biblical times. I cannot find the beer anywhere in the bible.

It might be under "strong drink" but to say that it was not available in Bible times so we shouldn't drink it is ridiculous. Then I couldn't have my beloved Coke!

You also should read a good article about Jesus and wine at http://www.learnthebible.org/jesus-and-wine.html. I don't think that he drank alcoholic wine at all. Study that article closely.

The link doesn't work but if Jesus were a first century Jew, He drank wine.

 

[zbrown0228]

I think when Christians drink, they are flirting with sin. Some Christians feel that casual drinking is OK. I however do not agree with this concept. It only takes one drink too many for it to become "sin." Quite frankly I think casual drinking with Christians is just a way for them to justify their sin.

Forgive me for this example, but its one of the best I can think of. The bible clearly speaks of fornication being a sin. Many "non-married" couples believe they can justify their sin by participating in every other sexual activity other than "sex," and they believe they are still being obedient to God's Word. How sadly mistaken are these people.

Christians who drink are no different. Not to mention it's a horrible witness as many of you have already stated.

 

[PrivateWoman]

I think when Christians drink, they are flirting with sin. Some Christians feel that casual drinking is OK. I however do not agree with this concept. It only takes one drink too many for it to become "sin." Quite frankly I think casual drinking with Christians is just a way for them to justify their sin.

Forgive me for this example, but its one of the best I can think of. The bible clearly speaks of fornication being a sin. Many "non-married" couples believe they can justify their sin by participating in every other sexual activity other than "sex," and they believe they are still being obedient to God's Word. How sadly mistaken are these people.

Christians who drink are no different. Not to mention it's a horrible witness as many of you have already stated.

You have brought up some excellent points. My sister has some friends from church who believe in drinking moderately. Well.. many of them ended up getting drunk after all. That was not their intention. Even if you don't get drunk, you still get a buzz from drinking. I am amazed at how some people have misconceptions about wine in the bible. For example, I know that Jesus didn't serve alcoholic wine. A good article to support the truth is at http://www.learnthebible.org/jesus-and-wine.html. Jesus is sinless. He certainly would not do something that would lead to some people getting drunk. At least a few people always get drunk when alcoholic beverages are served at a special event.

You are certainly right about many unmarried people doing everything short of sexual intercourse. I feel that many of them are too physical before marriage. For example, one of my good friends and her husband went too far physically. They fooled around and she got pregnant. They were very strong Christians. In fact, my friend's husband was a seminary student working on becoming a pastor. This shows you that any strong Christians could fall.

It seems like many Christians are constantly thinking about how much they can do without "sinning" rather than looking at what they should avoid that would lead to the sin in the first place. I learned from one of Eric and Leslie Ludy's books on purity that some Christians even think that oral sex is okay for unmarried couples.

 

[annsni]

I think when Christians drink, they are flirting with sin. Some Christians feel that casual drinking is OK. I however do not agree with this concept. It only takes one drink too many for it to become "sin." Quite frankly I think casual drinking with Christians is just a way for them to justify their sin.

Forgive me for this example, but its one of the best I can think of. The bible clearly speaks of fornication being a sin. Many "non-married" couples believe they can justify their sin by participating in every other sexual activity other than "sex," and they believe they are still being obedient to God's Word. How sadly mistaken are these people.

Christians who drink are no different. Not to mention it's a horrible witness as many of you have already stated.

How many hamburgers before it's a sin?

 

[zbrown0228]

You are absolutely right about Christian's seeing how far they can go without sinning. Do they think Jesus did this? Absolutely not! Jesus interacted with sinners, but He did not partake in the potentially sinful activities that they did. As far as Christians beleiving that partaking in oral sex is OK before marriage saddens me. These people are totally defiling God's plan for sexual interaction between a man and a woman. Any type of sexual activity, including oral sex, should be reserved for marriage and marriage only. Once again, this is just another way that Christians are flirting with sin.

 

[annsni]

Who says that many Christians are looking to see how much they can do without sinning? How about Christians who know the Scriptures and know liberty and wisdom??

 

[zbrown0228]

How many hamburgers before it's a sin?

Well if you are a baptist, no amount of hamburgers is too many. LOL

Thats a loaded question. Depends on the person I suppose. But to the best of my knowledge, no amount of hamburgers can cause you to become drunk.

 

[annsni]

Well if you are a baptist, no amount of hamburgers is too many. LOL

Thats a loaded question. Depends on the person I suppose. But to the best of my knowledge, no amount of hamburgers can cause you to become drunk.

But they can bring you to gluttony - yet another sin but one well overlooked.

 

[zbrown0228]

Who says that many Christians are looking to see how much they can do without sinning? How about Christians who know the Scriptures and know liberty and wisdom??

Your opinion is your own, but I just have a tough time convincing myself that Jesus would fit in at one of these "Christian casual drinking parties." I was always taught that if the act is questionable ask yourself a couple questions:

1. What are my reasons for doing this?

2. Will I be glorifying God with my actions?

3. Will this be a good witness?

I highly doubt there will be any casual drinking in Heaven.

 

[zbrown0228]

But they can bring you to gluttony - yet another sin but one well overlooked.

Agreed. Eating should be done in moderation for it can become gluttony. I don't believe drinking should be done at all. It is bad on the to liver, its too easy to cross the line to becoming drunk, and it is doing nothing to glorify God.

 

[annsni]

Your opinion is your own, but I just have a tough time convincing myself that Jesus would fit in at one of these "Christian casual drinking parties." I was always taught that if the act is questionable ask yourself a couple questions:

1. What are my reasons for doing this?

2. Will I be glorifying God with my actions?

3. Will this be a good witness?

I highly doubt there will be any casual drinking in Heaven.

Oh I'm sure it won't be casual. After all, it's going to be a wedding feast!!! That's far from casual!!

But I do agree with your questions and we need to make our choices in light of our culture. THAT is what makes the difference. I do clearly believe that Jesus drank wine as any other person in His day and age drank. I do believe that wine is given to us as a blessing but like many blessings we've been given, we've abused that blessing. But I do not go at all with the false teaching that alcohol is forbidden in Scripture. Instead I see WISDOM taught in Scripture and we need to use that wisdom that God gave us to know when to abstain from "meat" in order to not offend someone when that "meat" is not an issue to God.

I've stated before that I have had alcohol in the past and may have it again but for now in this time and culture I live in and keeping my ministry in focus, I do not drink currently. I do buy alcohol to use for cooking and to make vanilla extract and herbal tinctures but we do not drink it. But I will never tell anyone that drinking alcohol is an across the board sin and it's forbidden in Scripture because that would be putting words into Scripture that are not there - and THAT is a sin.

 

[zbrown0228]

Oh I'm sure it won't be casual. After all, it's going to be a wedding feast!!! That's far from casual!!

But I do agree with your questions and we need to make our choices in light of our culture. THAT is what makes the difference. I do clearly believe that Jesus drank wine as any other person in His day and age drank. I do believe that wine is given to us as a blessing but like many blessings we've been given, we've abused that blessing. But I do not go at all with the false teaching that alcohol is forbidden in Scripture. Instead I see WISDOM taught in Scripture and we need to use that wisdom that God gave us to know when to abstain from "meat" in order to not offend someone when that "meat" is not an issue to God.

I've stated before that I have had alcohol in the past and may have it again but for now in this time and culture I live in and keeping my ministry in focus, I do not drink currently. I do buy alcohol to use for cooking and to make vanilla extract and herbal tinctures but we do not drink it. But I will never tell anyone that drinking alcohol is an across the board sin and it's forbidden in Scripture because that would be putting words into Scripture that are not there - and THAT is a sin.

So where does the line that devides sin and non-sin? If Jesus drank wine and that makes drinking wine ok, then what about beer, whiskey, or vodka? I am sure you believe the wine Jesus drank was fermented. If that is so, do you think Christ ever got drunk, or even tipsy?

 

[annsni]

So where does the line that devides sin and non-sin? If Jesus drank wine and that makes drinking wine ok, then what about beer, whiskey, or vodka? I am sure you believe the wine Jesus drank was fermented. If that is so, do you think Christ ever got drunk, or even tipsy?

First off, we need to understand that alcohol is alcohol. Beer, whiskey, vodka, wine - whatever is all alcohol and affects our bodies.

Secondly, are we showing a stricter measure of drunkenness than God does? When God says that wine gladdens the heart, that shows me that wine does affect a person in some way and it doesn't mean it's sinful at that point.

Christ never got drunk because drunkenness is a sin. But what is your definition of "tipsy"? Is it mild drunkenness? Then it is wrong. Is it feeling relaxed and allowing the warmth that the alcohol gives your body to flow through you being tipsy? I do wonder if that's not the "gladdens" that God is speaking about.

But bottom line: one drink does not a drunk make. If you cannot control yourself with one drink then it is best for you to not drink. I personally can easily handle one drink in an evening. It does not affect me in the least other than being relaxed (and I've said before that tea does the same thing to me so I'm not sure it's the alcohol that does it). I do not see anything wrong in the Scripture with that at all.

 

[zbrown0228]

First off, we need to understand that alcohol is alcohol. Beer, whiskey, vodka, wine - whatever is all alcohol and affects our bodies.

Secondly, are we showing a stricter measure of drunkenness than God does? When God says that wine gladdens the heart, that shows me that wine does affect a person in some way and it doesn't mean it's sinful at that point.

Christ never got drunk because drunkenness is a sin. But what is your definition of "tipsy"? Is it mild drunkenness? Then it is wrong. Is it feeling relaxed and allowing the warmth that the alcohol gives your body to flow through you being tipsy? I do wonder if that's not the "gladdens" that God is speaking about.

But bottom line: one drink does not a drunk make. If you cannot control yourself with one drink then it is best for you to not drink. I personally can easily handle one drink in an evening. It does not affect me in the least other than being relaxed (and I've said before that tea does the same thing to me so I'm not sure it's the alcohol that does it). I do not see anything wrong in the Scripture with that at all.

You have made some good points here. But, what about in the scripture when it speaks about not making another brother stumble? Whats your opinion on this in regards to drinking alcohol?

 

[PrivateWoman]

I wanted to share some things with you all that I have not shared yet.

I owned two online business directories that promotes vacation and relocation. I decided I wanted them to be family friendly so I made a policy for restaurants and stores that sold or served alcoholic beverages. They could advertise on the online directory, but they could not say anything about the alcoholic beverages they sold.

This was a very hard decision because I lost some opportunities to get money. I was especially sad when a wine & coffee shop wanted to advertise on my directory and the owner decided to not advertise after seeing the policy. It was very hard on me because I wanted the money badly. But I did this because I wanted to honor God and keep the online directory family friendly. It is so sad about how alcohol has destroyed so many lives and marriages.

I also had a friend who went for a job interview at a very fancy restaurant that served a lot of alcoholic beverages such as wine when he was in his early 20s. He told the man who interviewed him that he was afraid that he had wasted his time because he could not serve alcohol. Amazingly, he was offered the job and the boss told him that he didn't have to serve alcoholic beverages as a bus boy. Co-workers tried to get him to serve alcohol, but he would not. Then later, he was promoted to assistant manager. He still would not serve alcohol. I know he only got the job because of God.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Our pastor's son and his wife bought a restaurant early this year. The previous owners had a karaoke stage and a bar in it.

Our pastor's son struggled with the decision whether or not to keep the bar as it brought in the most revenue. Sadly, he kept the bar.

Last week, he stood before the church and admitted that he had become an alcoholic.

There is no good to come of alcohol. At the last, it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.

 

[dwmoeller1]

Our pastor's son and his wife bought a restaurant early this year. The previous owners had a karaoke stage and a bar in it.

Our pastor's son struggled with the decision whether or not to keep the bar as it brought in the most revenue. Sadly, he kept the bar.

Last week, he stood before the church and admitted that he had become an alcoholic.

There is no good to come of alcohol. At the last, it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.

You mean that no good can come of abuse of alcohol. It wasn't the alcohol which was the problem but his immoderate use of it. Same with food, same with sex.

Besides, anecdotes are useless in a discussion since for every anecdote you pull our in favor of your side, I can pull out the same or more in favor of the opposite. Plus, anecdotes tend to ignore or pass over important details.

Furthermore, lets be careful and quote principles in their context. Here is the full context:
29Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
30They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
32At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
33Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
34Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
35They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

You argue, not to partake at all. But the context of Scripture is that of those who abuse wine, who are addicted to it. After all, the things described - the insensitivity to pain, the lack of inhibitions, the red eyes, the abnormal bad temper, being accident prone, getting into fights, babbling, etc. - don't happen to those who drink in moderation but to those who get drunk or are alcoholics. It is those who tarry long at wine and seek it out that this passage is speaking of. It says nothing of moderate use of wine.

 

[dwmoeller1]

I wanted to share some things with you all that I have not shared yet.

I owned two online business directories that promotes vacation and relocation. I decided I wanted them to be family friendly so I made a policy for restaurants and stores that sold or served alcoholic beverages. They could advertise on the online directory, but they could not say anything about the alcoholic beverages they sold.

This was a very hard decision because I lost some opportunities to get money. I was especially sad when a wine & coffee shop wanted to advertise on my directory and the owner decided to not advertise after seeing the policy. It was very hard on me because I wanted the money badly. But I did this because I wanted to honor God and keep the online directory family friendly.

It is good that you live by your convictions and conscience.

However, one should not confuse convictions and conscience with Scriptural teachings. As long as one's argument against alcohol use is personal and specific to their own lives, I have no problem with it at all. Its when they seek to restrict the liberty of other's on things Scripture does not teach - in fact, things which Scripture often affirms. So, the brother/sister weak in faith who cannot partake in good conscience, I support their decision to refrain, and to those who can partake in good conscience I recognize their freedom to do so in accordance with Scripture. But I will vehemently argue against those who try and apply their own extra-Scriptural set of rules to all believers and bind their conscience thereby - that is legalism and not to be passed over.

It is so sad about how alcohol has destroyed so many lives and marriages.

It is also sad how sex and food have destroyed so many lives as well. But the sadness is not due to food, sex or alcohol, but to men abusing these things - seeking from them things they were not intended for.

I also had a friend who went for a job interview at a very fancy restaurant that served a lot of alcoholic beverages such as wine when he was in his early 20s. He told the man who interviewed him that he was afraid that he had wasted his time because he could not serve alcohol. Amazingly, he was offered the job and the boss told him that he didn't have to serve alcoholic beverages as a bus boy. Co-workers tried to get him to serve alcohol, but he would not. Then later, he was promoted to assistant manager. He still would not serve alcohol. I know he only got the job because of God.

Ditto to the above. It is a good and commendable thing to live so that you don't violate your conscience.

 

[dwmoeller1]

It is wonderful that you have never drank alcohol. But I am puzzled about why you defend Christians who drink.

Because Scripture does not condemn it. In fact, it affirms it (in its proper context). If Scripture does not condemn it then for us to do so would be legalism and wrongful binding of other's consciences. Paul and Christ did not tolerate such things, nor will I.

I feel especially strong about not binding other's consciences after having come out of a cult which did so. I saw the spiritual devastation that could cause first hand.

There is no way my former pastor of singles & worship could have witnessed to those guys while drinking beer. Can you see someone with a beer in their hands and witness to others?

Absolutely. A lot has to do with the conscience of the believer and the culture of the unbeliever lives in. If the believer cannot drink with a clear conscience, then that will affect their witness. But if the believer can partake in good conscience, and the unbeliever has no reason to see moderate drinking as anything other than normal (as the vast majority of Americans), then there is nothing odd or damaging to one's witness while drinking in front of an unbeliever.

In fact, drinking in moderation could be a positive thing to one's witness. If the norm for the unbeliever is to overindulge and drink for the purpose of getting drunk, then a Christian modelling self-control and moderation by drinking could enhance their witness.

It is hard for me to listen to things a person who is drinking beer may be saying because he is not apart from the world.

Well sure, thats because your conscience is bothered by this. You conscience sees it as wrong and your conscience reacts on that basis. Those who can partake in faith won't see things the same way, they won't have the same reactions. Its a meat-offered-to-idols thing.