Drinking Alcohol Poll--

Guess I'm still a little slow on the uptake, today. Too tired, maybe. :sleeping_2:

But what is the difference between one person ignoring Scripture(s) that do not seem to support what he or she wants it to say, and another person from an opposing POV ignoring other Scripture(s) that do not say what he or she wants it to say?

Somehow, I fail to see any difference.

But maybe that is just me. Someone wanna' help me with this one?

Ed

 

It applies to the particular topic... alcohol.

 

Why stop with only one topic? As another mentioned before, I am sorry to hear about your brother, but that does not give additional Scriptural insight into this subject, particularly, any more than the loss of my own little brother to cancer, at the age of 50, gives me any more insight as to the "Why?" of that with God. In fact, the fact that I too have cancer, gives me no more insight as to the "Why?" of this, for that matter.

Ed

 

The significant thing is that the Old Testament nowhere in its condemnation of wine makes the distinction so popular today between moderate drinking and drunkenness. Do you remember what Solomon said in Proverbs 23:31-32? "Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent and stingeth like an adder." The command is clear. Do not drink moderately because it will lead to sin, sorrow and misery. So the conclusion is that the Old Testament uses these two main words for wine, "tirosh" meaning grape juice, a product which is never condemned and frequently commended, and "yayin" meaning wine which is frequently condemned, often associated with drunkenness and never spoken of in any favorable light.
When we turn to the New Testament we are dealing with only one main word, "oinos." Dr. Lyman Abbot, in his "Dictionary of Religious Knowledge," says: "It is tolerably clear that the word wine does not necessarily imply fermented liquor. It signifies only a production of the vine." "Oinos" without qualification can in the New Testament easily mean unfermented wine. In fact, this word was also used to denote various kinds of drinks or confections of other fruits such as date and lotus fruits, according to Lidell and Soctt’s Lexicon, two authorities in the Greek language. Sir Richard Jebb of Cambridge University define "oinos" as a general term which might include all kinds of beverages.

Alcoholism

You know if I wanted to I could go back in the Old Testament and justify
having more than one wife. I won't because we are to have one spouse.

 

So now I'm an atheist?

I suggest you reread the forum rules of posting.

 

I had a sip of wine during the Lord's Supper today at church.

I had a pina colada a week ago, Saturday, while playing cards and watching football at my cousin's house.

I have abused alcohol in the past (on just 2 occasions that I can recall having "too much"), as most all people have done with many different things in their lives, but I do not believe an amount of a liquid to drink is sinful if it is not causing you to stumble. (Literally, in this case.)

And, btw, both instances of my "too much" occurred years ago, before I was even legally old enough to drink. Chalk it up to rebellious-teenager-ism. Plus, my big brother made me do it.:laugh:

Oh, and I didn't say this: on just 2 occasions that I can recall having "too much", to be funny. I meant those are the only times I believe it happened.

Put me in the "occasional drink" category.

 

I'm hoping he doesn't mean to come across as he does . . .

 

I said the people on the other site are, not you.

 

annsni.

Look up drink offering in the Word of God. Drink offerings were to be poured out, but nowhere does the Word of God condone man drinking them.

 

drinking alcohol

I marked the last choice, but my truthful answer is closer to a mixture of the last two answers.

FOR ME, it is a sin to drink alcohol, because I know I am an alcoholic. As such, I must not allow myself to do anything that would bring shame upon the Name of Jesus.

IN AND OF ITSELF, the drinking of alcohol is not a sin. If it was, Paul would not have instructed Timothy to "use a little wine for thy stomach's sake" (1 Timothy 5:23)

Bill :godisgood:

 

For the same reason they sacrificed pork and catfish. Cleanliness didn't matter if it wasn't going to be eaten.

Okay, I know I'm bad.:laugh:

 

[FONT=&quot]THE SCRIPTURES.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]GENERIC WORDS.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Professor M. Stuart, in his Letter to Rev. Dr Nott, . [/FONT][FONT=&quot]February 1, 1848, says, page 11: "There are in the Scripture[/FONT] [FONT=&quot](Hebrew) but two generic words to designate such drinks as [/FONT][FONT=&quot]may be of an intoxicating nature when fermented and which are [/FONT][FONT=&quot]not so before fermentation. In the Hebrew Scriptures the word [/FONT][FONT=&quot]yayin, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]in its broadest meaning, designates grape-juice, or the liquid which the fruit of the vine yields. This may be new or old, sweet or sour, fermented or unfermented, intoxicating or unintoxicating. The simple idea of grape-juice or vine-liquor is the basis and essence of the word, in whatever connection it may stand. The specific sense which we must often assign to the word arises not from the word itself, but from the connection in which it stands."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In the London edition (1863) of President E. Nott's Lectures, with an introduction by Taylor Lewis, LL.D., [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Professor of Greek in Union College, and several appendices by [/FONT][FONT=&quot]F. R. Lees, he says: "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Yayin is a generic term, and, when not [/FONT][FONT=&quot]restricted in its meaning by some word or circumstance, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]comprehends vinous beverage of every sort, however produced. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]It is, however, as we have seen, often restricted to the fruit of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the vine in its natural and unintoxicating state"[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (p. 68).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Kitto's Cyclopaedia, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]article Wine: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Yayin in Bible use is a very general term, including every species of wine made from [/FONT][FONT=&quot]grapes (oinos ampelinos), though in later ages it became [/FONT][FONT=&quot]extended in its application to wine made from other substances."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev, Dr. Murphy, Professor of Hebrew at Belfast, Ireland, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]says: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Yayin denotes all stages of the juice of the grape."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Yayin (sometimes written yin, yain, or ain) stands for the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]expressed juice of the grape [/FONT][FONT=&quot]— the context sometimes indicating [/FONT][FONT=&quot]whether the juice had undergone or not the process of fermentation. It is mentioned one hundred and forty-one [/FONT][FONT=&quot]times."[/FONT][FONT=&quot] — Bible Commentary, Appendix B, p. 412.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]SHAKAR, "the second, is of the like tenor," says [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Professor Stuart, page 14, but applies wholly to a different [/FONT][FONT=&quot]liquor. The Hebrew name is shakar, which is usually translated [/FONT][FONT=&quot]strong drink [/FONT][FONT=&quot]in the Old Testament and in the New. The mere [/FONT][FONT=&quot]English reader, of course, invariably gets from this translation a [/FONT][FONT=&quot]wrong idea of the real meaning of the original Hebrew. He [/FONT][FONT=&quot]attaches to it the idea which the English phrase now conveys [/FONT][FONT=&quot]among us, viz., that of a strong, intoxicating drink, like our[/FONT]
distilled liquors. As to distillation, by which alcoholic liquors are now principally obtained, it was utterly unknown to the Hebrews, and, indeed to all the world in ancient times." "The true original idea of shakar is a liquor obtained from dates or other fruits (grapes excepted), or barley, millet, etc., which were dried, or scorched, and a decoction of them was mixed with honey, aromatics, etc."
On page 15 he adds: "Both words are generic.The first means vinous liquor of any and every kind; the second means a corresponding liquor from dates and other fruits, or from several grains. Both of the liquors have in them the saccharine principle; and therefore they may become alcoholic. But both may be kept and used in an unfermented state; when, of course, no quantity that a man could drink of them would intoxicate him in any perceptible degree." "The two words which I have thus endeavored to define are the only two in the Old testament which are generic, and which have reference to the subject now in question."
"SHAKAR (sometimes written shechar, shekar) signifies 'sweet drink' expressed from fruits other than the grape, and drunk in an unfermented or fermented state. It occurs in the O. T. twenty-three times." — Bible Commentary, p. 418. Kitto's Cyclopaedia says: "Shakar is a generic term, including palm-wine and other saccharine beverages, except those • prepared from the vine." It is in this article defined "sweet' drink."
Dr. F. R. Lees, page xxxii. of his Preliminary Dissertation'", to the Bible Commentary, says shakar, "saccharine drink," related to the word for sugar in all the Indo-Germanic and Semitic languages, and is still applied throughout the East, from India to Abyssinia, to the palm sap, the shaggery made from ' to the date juice and syrup, as well as to sugar and to the fermented palm-wine. It has by usage grown into a generic term for "drinks," including fresh juices and inebriating liquors other than those coming from the grape. See under the heading "Other Hebrew Words" for further illustrations.
TIROSH, in Kitto's Cyclopaedia, is defined "vintage] fruit." In Bible Commentary, p. 414: "Tirosh is a collective name for the natural produce of the vine." Again, Bible Commentary, p. xxiv,: "Tirosh is not wine at all, but the fruit of the vineyard in its natural condition." A learned Biblical scholar, in a volume on the wine question, published in London, 1841, holds that tirosh is not wine, but fruit. This doubtless may be its meaning in some passages, but in others it can only mean wine, as, for example, Prov. iii. 10: "Thy presses shall burst out with new wine" (tirosh); Isa. Ixii. 8: "The sons of the stranger shall not drink thy new wine" (tirosh),

to be continued.

 

continued

"On the whole, it seems to me quite clear," says Prof. Stuart, p. 28, "that tirosh is a species of wine, and not a genus, like yayin, which means grape-juice in any form, or of any quality, and in any state, and usually is made definite only by the context.
"Tirosh is connected with corn and the fruit of the olive and the orchard nineteen times; with corn alone, eleven times; with the vine, three times; and is otherwise named five times: in all, thirty-eight times." "It is translated in the Authorized Version twenty-six times by wine, eleven times by new wine (Neb. x. 39, xiii. 5, 12: Prov. iii. 10; Isa. xxiv. 7, Ixv. 8; Hos. iv. 14, ix. 2; Joel i. 10; Hag. i. 11; Zach. ix. 17), and once (Micah vi. 15) by 'sweet wine,' where the margin has new wine." — Bible Commentary, p. 415.
So uniform is the good use of this word that there is but one doubtful exception (Hosea iv. 11): Whoredom and wine (yayin), and new wine (tirosh), take away the heart." Here are three different things, each of which is charged with taking uway the heart. As whoredom is not the same as yayin, so yayin is not the same as tirosh. If physical intoxication is not a necessary attribute of the first, then why is it of the third, especially when the second is adequate for intoxication? If yayin and tirosh each means intoxicating wine, then why use both? It would then read, whoredom and yayin (intoxicating wine) and tirosh (intoxicating wine) take away the heart, which is tautological. The three terms are symbolical.


Bible Wines by William Patton

Alcohol proponents do not want to belive the Historians of Biblical times, They do not want to believe Hebrew Scholars, they do not want to believe the Word of God when it says "Look thou not." They would rather rely on modern terminology for the word 'wine' and their own lack of true study in the matter of alcohol in the life of a Believer.

Annsni.
Yayin and strong drink is approved in Deuteronomy 14:26. It is wine in its unfermented state.

 

You can laugh and jest all you want. God is not laughing.

 

I doubt my post will do anything but make everyone mad, but here goes:

1. I have my doubts about the difference often described between wine & grape juice in scripture. But would I bet my life on it? Nope.
2. Drunkenness is always wrong...always a sin. No doubt.
3. I should not cause a brother to stumble.
4. The potential upside to moderate consumption (taste, enjoyment, maybe minor health benefits) is quite small. The potential downside (arrest, accident, addiction, damage) is huge. The price, for me, isn't worth it.
5. I deal with kids all the time. It's better in my book to lead here by example, rather than being understood as saying, "Do as I say, not as I do."
6. If any alcohol consumption is sinful, and I refrain, I've lost nothing, and remained unblemished in that area.
7. We are created in God's image. However, that image is marred by sin. We see some of that "marring" when it comes to what vices/sins/etc. we are susceptible to. What if my weakness is alcohol? Sure, some folks drink and don't get hooked...but what if I'm one of those "other" folks? It's not worth the risk.

So is drinking at all a sin? Drunkenness is...that's enough for me. I think it's unwise for me to drink any alcohol whatsoever. I keep things simple, and just share with you what God wishes for me to do. I think it's unwise for me to drink. You do as God leads you to do. My list above is a descriptive, autobiographical account of where God has brought me. It takes into account...

• My upbringing (pretty strict view against alcohol)
• My family history (several alcoholics in my family)
• My "target audience" (I work with teens and pre-teens...and for them, drinking is always wrong because it's illegal)
• My sphere of influence and other Christians I affect (in this very conservative area, few Christians drink...or at least, they hide it well if they do )

So anyhow...if God gives you liberty, no skin off my back (no foam off my beer, no olive off my martini, whatever). I'm fine where I am.

And I tend not to post much in the boozy threads, because no matter how civil things are, we're never more than 10 posts from a personal attack, a fight, and the "pharisee/compromiser" barbs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcott
If you're not a picker and chooser, then Yes? or No? -- do you obey these verses --
Give strong drink to him who is perishing,
And wine to him whose life is bitter.
Let him drink and forget his poverty
And remember his trouble no more. (Proverbs 31:6-7)