Drinking Question......

[Steadfast Fred]

Spurgeon drank beer.

I am familiar with Spurgeon. He preached against alcohol and clearly stated in one of his sermons that he did not drink.

 

[Aaron]

Your logic is faulty. Follow the following anecdote to see how.

There is no good that comes from going to the movies. It doesn't build character, it helps no one in Christian virtue, it doesn't promote the Kingdom of God or the Gospel.

But the damage that has been done by something that so naturally lends itself to abuse is unquestionable. What's worse, those who've been saved out of it, and testify of it, and will no longer touch it are marginalized as unspiritual, legalistic, ignorant and superstitious.

Now tell me again how holy and righteous your movie going is...


You could replace the word wine with a plethora of different things that bring us pleasure and make the exactly the same faulty argument.

BTW, movie going is abused- look at the horrible, blasphemous movies that people go to every week. If you would never go to ANY movie you would never be tempted to go to a bad one. And it is abused by people going to often, spending money that should be going to the kingdom, spending time that could be spent doing beneficial things, etc...

And there are MANY IFB type people who testify to being saved from going to the theater. Some of whom give testimonies about the negative effect it has had on their minds and their families, etc...


With all things that Scripture does not condemn we should be cautious and moderate. That is the sensible position on wine.

I'll agree there is no good in seeing movies, and I will never fight for anyone's "right" to go see one.

But, it sounds to me like you agree there is no good drinking alcohol. So my question is, why do you do it if it's not for the drug effects?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

If I drank 2 beers*, in one (1) hour, my blood alcohol content would be ~.0266**
After having said drinks, I could get on the road and drive and be well under the legal limit of .08

According to BAC charts, 2 beers would have you at .03 to .04 with driving skills significantly affected (if you are between 220 and 230 pounds)

 

[annsni]

According to BAC charts, 2 beers would have you at .03 to .04 with driving skills significantly affected (if you are between 220 and 230 pounds)

I just went to http://www.bloodalcoholcalculator.org/ and plugged in 220 lbs., 2 beers, 1 hour and I got 0.02% - NOT IMPAIRED.

Then I went to http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm and plugged in the same numbers, got the same percentage result and yet it said "Possible Impairment"

Finally I went to http://www.globalrph.com/bac.cgi and plugged in the same numbers yet again and got 0.028% with "No loss of coordination, slight euphoria and loss of shyness. Depressant effects are not apparent. Mildly relaxed and maybe a little lightheaded. Behavior nearly normal by ordinary observation. Other: Some loss of judgment. Relaxation. Slight body warmth. Altered mood."

So your numbers are wrong.

 

[HankD]

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;​

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things.

HankD

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I just went to http://www.bloodalcoholcalculator.org/ and plugged in 220 lbs., 2 beers, 1 hour and I got 0.02% - NOT IMPAIRED.

Then I went to http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm and plugged in the same numbers, got the same percentage result and yet it said "Possible Impairment"

Finally I went to http://www.globalrph.com/bac.cgi and plugged in the same numbers yet again and got 0.028% with "No loss of coordination, slight euphoria and loss of shyness. Depressant effects are not apparent. Mildly relaxed and maybe a little lightheaded. Behavior nearly normal by ordinary observation. Other: Some loss of judgment. Relaxation. Slight body warmth. Altered mood."

So your numbers are wrong.

How about if you had a corned beef sandwich & fries with it? is there a bloat factor built into the equation?

 

[annsni]

1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;​

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things.

HankD

Wait - what??? MUCH???? Where did THAT word come from? It can't be there because then it could mean that they could be given to a little and be OK!! That just doesn't work with preconceived notions!!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

According to BAC charts, 2 beers would have you at .03 to .04 with driving skills significantly affected (if you are between 220 and 230 pounds)

FYI....I am 230 lbs & I can have 2 beers in one hour without so much as a belch. now I will tend to urinate more but you know what they say about beer dont you...

 

[jaigner]

I am familiar with Spurgeon. He preached against alcohol and clearly stated in one of his sermons that he did not drink.

Nope. He did, earlier in his life and ministry, drink.

He also smoked.

John Calvin drank.

Martin Luther drank.

Just thought you'd like to know.

 

[jaigner]

Yes. the Catholic Church did many godless things for hundreds of years. (yes.. that was being funny)
However, just because the church for hundreds of years held to salvation through works.. should we continue there in?

Well, the reformers and those later drank.

And members of the early church drank.

 

[annsni]

FYI....I am 230 lbs & I can have 2 beers in one hour without so much as a belch. now I will tend to urinate more but you know what they say about beer dont you...

When I used to get frequent UTIs, my doctor said to take vitamin E and drink beer. Beer was the best way to flush the system.

 

[Allan]

Well, the reformers and those later drank.

And members of the early church drank.

You seem to ignore the historical record that others did not.

 

[webdog]

While it is spoken of good terms at times it is more often acquainted with harm, folly, judgment, and sin.
It seems prudence should be used when in determining if drinking is potentially a good idea.. even if it is allowed.

Not quite accurate Alcohol is mentioned 247 times in Scripture.

Use accepted as normal part of culture: 59
Symbolic: 33
Wine called a blessing from God: 27
Use in offerings and sacrifices: 25
Loss of wine an example of a curse from God: 20
Examples of abuse of alcohol: 19
Vows of abstinence: 21
Warnings against abuse: 17
Gifts between people: 9
Comparisons (x is better than wine): 5
False accusations of drunkenness: 4
Rules for selecting deacons: 3
Miscellaneous: 4
Abstinence in deference to weak consciences: 1

 

[Jerome]

Re: Spurgeon on drinking

From Spurgeon's Autobiography [a man is recounting how Spurgeon burst into a tavern and confronted him]:

he points at me with his finger, just so, and says, "What doest thou here, Elijah? Sitting with the ungodly; and you a member of a church, and breaking your pastor's heart. I'm ashamed of you! I wouldn't break my pastor's heart, I'm sure." And then he walks away. Well, I did feel angry; but I knew it was all true, and I was guilty; so I put down my pipe, and did not touch my beer, but hurried away to a lonely spot, and cast myself down before the Lord, confessing my sin and begging for forgiveness.

 

[jaigner]

You seem to ignore the historical record that others did not.

I'm not ignoring it. Just merely pointing out that many Christians that we hold in high esteem consumed alcohol.

Others who didn't often didn't believe it was wrong. They just chose not to. I'm fine with people who don't, but the minute they begin to judge others on the issue, we have a problem.

 

[John Toppass]

If I drank 2 beers*, in one (1) hour, my blood alcohol content would be ~.0266**
After having said drinks, I could get on the road and drive and be well under the legal limit of .08.

Legal does not mean wise.

 

[NiteShift]

It is wonderful that so many Christians here are able to have two, three, or more drinks and not be impaired. It’s great that so many Christians can stop or start drinking and not feel the need to drink regularly. But for large numbers of people this is not the case. They cannot drink in moderation even if they want to. Many become alcoholics after their very first drink, and large numbers of high schoolers and college students binge drink every weekend. Overintoxication alone kills about 80,000 people annually. And yet here we have 14 pages of justification (and 31 on the other thread) from Christians saying yeah go ahead and drink, just be moderate about it. As if.

I cannot imagine this level of support here justifying any other such risky behaviors, and yet most are going out of the way to defend something that clearly is devastating to millions of individuals and families. Alcohol use is by far the leading risk factor for disease in the Americas, far surpassing even tobacco. How self-indulgent (or just plain stubborn) can one be?

Yes you can find Scripture allowing it's use. You can also find Scripture allowing the hamstringing of horses, or stoning sinners. But it is doubtful that anyone here would defend those activities, ad infinitum.

 

[annsni]

See, the difference is, Nightshift, that God not only allows alcohol but has told us it's a blessing. So we need to keep it in perspective.

But you are right - there is a lot of abuse of alcohol and we need to prayerfully consider our liberty in drinking. Both my husband and I have no problem with drinking but we have chosen not to drink in deference of the college students we work with and those who are in our congregation who have struggled with alcohol. But we will never tell anyone that God condemns drinking because He doesn't and to say so would be adding to Scripture and that's not a good thing.

 

[NiteShift]

See, the difference is, Nightshift, that God not only allows alcohol but has told us it's a blessing. So we need to keep it in perspective.

But you are right - there is a lot of abuse of alcohol and we need to prayerfully consider our liberty in drinking. Both my husband and I have no problem with drinking but we have chosen not to drink in deference of the college students we work with and those who are in our congregation who have struggled with alcohol. But we will never tell anyone that God condemns drinking because He doesn't and to say so would be adding to Scripture and that's not a good thing.

But is drinking a part of salvation? Is it something that God required of Israel or the disciples? Does Jesus say 'Go forth and serve good wine to all nations and make wine-drinkers of them all"? None of the above. At most it is a pleasant drink that people are allowed to have. Defending alcohol use is not like defending the faith, though it's hard to tell sometimes!

Done.

 

[annsni]

But is drinking a part of salvation? Is it something that God required of Israel or the disciples? Does Jesus say 'Go forth and serve good wine to all nations and make wine-drinkers of them all"? None of the above. At most it is a pleasant drink that people are allowed to have. Defending alcohol use is not like defending the faith, though it's hard to tell sometimes!

Done.

Where did I say it was a part of salvation?