Drinking Responsibly

[KenH]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
Even if there were alcohol at these celebrations, I don't believe Jesus drunk it.

Just curious, why do you have such a problem with the idea that Jesus drank wine? All through the Old Testament, an abundance of wine is described as a blessing from God. And a simple look at history tells us that until the temperance movement of the 1800's, it was common for Christians to drink alcoholic beverages.

This hobby doctrine that a Christian can never drink alcoholic beverages is relatively new and promoted by one segment of evangelicalism.

 

[Helen]

Just a word here for a moment. I am having a problem with a strained tendon in my right hand -- the one that runs down the thumb to the wrist. Last night getting dinner was almost impossible for me due to the pain. I asked my husband, who has never drunk any alcohol at all and never will, if he minded if I had a glass of wine. He said no, not at all. So I did. One of the immediate effects was to increase blood circulation, to the site of the injury as well. The pain went down almost immediately. I knew the wine might help a little, but I had no idea it would be that dramatic. I was extremely grateful!

No, I did not have more than about four ounces of wine! More would not have increased the help!

But wine itself is NOT a sin. It is a gift from God. Noah obviously knew how to make wine and expected what he did to result in wine. I can guarantee that if he thought he was taking a mouthful of straight grape juice and got wine, he would have spit it out immediately! But he did not; instead he became drunk to the point of passing out. Scientifically I think this is a clear indication of a huge drop in atmospheric pressure after the Flood, which he would not have known about in terms of its effect on any alcohol consumed. But I also know that Noah was a righteous man, and that he made wine and drank it on purpose! I do think the getting drunk was purely accidental, though, and a sign to us that there was a major change in the entire earth after the Flood from its condition before.

In Proverbs 31:6, we can see both beer and wine are prescribed for certain conditions.

It is the rule of wine -- the getting drunk and being enslaved to alcohol which is strongly condemned in Scripture.

So last night when I had the wine, was it responsible drinking? Inasmuch as it relieved a physical problem of some pain, allowed me to clean up after dinner and then get a good night's sleep not hurting, yes, I think it was. Will I have wine tonight? No. It's a pretty rare thing for me, but it is something I appreciate every once in awhile.

 

[Wygal]

Ouch, Helen! I know that hurts. I've got that also. Hope it gets better. I use a wrist brace, most of the time I'm on the computer. It does help, however, my worse side is the left.

 

[Johnv]

It is the rule of wine -- the getting drunk and being enslaved to alcohol which is strongly condemned in Scripture.

Indeed! Good post, Helen! My prayers upon you for your injury.

 

[RaptureReady]

Helen, I believe alcohol can be used for medicine purposes. Curious, did you ask the Lord to relieve your pain before you had your 4 ounces?

Ken, I don't believe that fermented wine was a blessing from God. The juice from the grapes, sure, but not fermented.

 

[wizofoz]

Maybe the Lord relieved her pain through the wine. He can do things like that, you know.

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by wizofoz:
Maybe the Lord relieved her pain through the wine. He can do things like that, you know.

The way you view wine, sure.

The way I few wine, no.

Why not tylenol? Motrin?

 

[Johnv]

Why not tylenol? Motrin?

That's interesting, that one will advocate the use of drugs, but not advocate the use of alcohol, which is in the same classification as drugs, btw.

 

[wizofoz]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wizofoz:
Maybe the Lord relieved her pain through the wine. He can do things like that, you know.

The way you view wine, sure.

The way I few wine, no.

Why not tylenol? Motrin? </font>[/QUOTE]Or morphine? Or marijuana? Heroin?
Sheesh........

 

[Johnv]

I don't believe that fermented wine was a blessing from God. The juice from the grapes, sure, but not fermented.

But fermentation is a natural process which one has no control over. Buy some grapes, press out the juice, and it will ferment (storebought grape juice won't do this, because it's been pasteurized, thus killing the natural bacteria found in grapes that cause fermentation).

 

[RaptureReady]

Alcohol, prescribed drugs, for medicine purposes, fine. For the taste of it, no.

As in the other topic, I'm done, I will let the Holy Spirit convict whoever is wrong.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
Ken, I don't believe that fermented wine was a blessing from God. The juice from the grapes, sure, but not fermented.

Yep, just ignore the Old Testament evidence.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
As in the other topic, I'm done, I will let the Holy Spirit convict whoever is wrong.

Look upon thyself as thou art now.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by wizofoz:
Or morphine? Or marijuana? Heroin?
Sheesh........

Are you sure it isn't Hash-Sheesh?

 

[wizofoz]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
As in the other topic, I'm done, I will let the Holy Spirit convict whoever is wrong.

Well, I'm glad the Holy Spirit needs your blessings to convict someone.

I think you've just run out of arguments.

 

[wizofoz]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wizofoz:
Or morphine? Or marijuana? Heroin?
Sheesh........

Are you sure it isn't Hash-Sheesh?

</font>[/QUOTE]Hash-sheesh....hash.....OH!! I get it!!

Man, you just can't revive dead brain cells......

 

[Helen]

Folks, wine is known to relax blood vessels. It thereby increases the blood flow temporarily, creating the 'flushed' feeling that precedes getting 'high'. I knew the wine would do that and drank some for that reason. If four ounces had not done it, I would not have tried more. But I've been alternating ibuprofen and tylenol every two hours for a couple of days now. I don't like that 'high' drugged feeling AT ALL! Wine left me much more sober and pain-free! I didn't need another pain killer all night. The night before I had finally resorted to a Darvocet (left over from my January surgery) to sleep.

I am truly convinced wine is a gift, and that Noah did know what he was doing, that Christ did turn the water into real, fermented wine (and probably had some Himself), that true wine was given to the disciples by Jesus at the Last Supper, etc. etc.

I mean, too much salt kills, too, folks. That does not make it evil or make the moderate use of it evil. In fact, it is necessary for life!

 

[Gwyneth]

The juice from the grapes, sure, but not fermented.

Grapes, along with some other fruit, plums, Blackberries etc. have a powdery deposit on the skin when fully ripened....this is natural yeast..to release the juice from the fruit it has to be pressed..the juice contains natural sugar... sugar+yeast(particularly in a warm place )= alchohol therefore,
if you don`t "washem",before you "squashem", you get alchohol.

I don`t think pasteurising was an option in those days

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
I will let the Holy Spirit convict whoever is wrong.

Well, I have been convicted by the Holy Spirit that drinking short of becoming drunk is permissible, but not mandatory.

That's why I don't drink alcohol at all now, not because it is a sin but because I don't have to and I prefer Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, Coca-Cola, etc.

I have tasted, over 30 years ago, wine, whiskey, champagne, and beer. And the total amount I tasted wouldn't have filled up a decent size glass.

Oh, and I did accidentally swallow a mouthful of Listerine back in the 1970s. Isn't a very large portion of Listerine alcohol?