East from the West and no fishing

[Dr. Timo]

can't understand

HP: How did you get all those posts? You must spend alot of time on the computer for someone who is praying 18-20 hours a day confessing and repenting of those sins?:laugh: :jesus:

 

[ajg1959]

Dr. Timo,

This is speaking of forgived all our PAST sins only. God do not remember our past sins, when after we confess our sins to God. He immediately forgived our sins of past, and he do not remember all our past sins anymore.

But, 1 John 1:9 commands us that we ought confess our sins to Christ/God all the times long as He is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse all our sins. If, we doing sinning right now, and not yet confess our currently sins right now for long time, therefore, Christ is NOT going to forgive us current and future sins!

In Ezekiel chapter 18 explaing clear that when a righteous (saint) turn away from righteous life, and into sin life, will bring forth to death, which speak of spiritually death in hell. Unless if righteous repents from the wicked ways, return back to Lord again, He will forgive person immediately, and shall save person's life.

Same with James 1:15-16. It warn us, if we sinning, it shall bring us forth to death, which speaking of spiritually death shall lead us to everlasting fire.

Yes, God do forgive our sins by through Jesus Christ on the cross by through the blood. His forgiven or atonement is no limited. He have the power to forgive all our sins at once.

But, it doesn't mean that He once forgived ALL our past, present and future sins. Many securists like baptists believed all our sins of past, present, and future are forgiven at once, so, therefore we are saved at once.

But, our future sins that we are not yet commit, 1 John 1:9 commands us that we ought to confess our sins when after we did commit today and future too. If we continue commit sinning today, and future for a long period. Christ is NOT going to forgive our currently sins!

Hell is for sinners, rebelllion, and unrepent people.

But, we know that hell was created for Satan and fallen angels. But, people are in hell, because of not believe in Christ, also disobedient God, also, not repent of sins.

We are responsiblity to confess our currently sins from last week, month, or for long period while we did not make confession for long time, we MUST confess our sins to Christ, therefore, He is faifthful and just to forgive and cleanse all our sins all the time. Unless, if we don't confess our sins to Him, He will NOT fogive our currently sins. What will happen to us when we did not confess our sins? What will happen to our currently sins? Our currently sins without confession will bring us to death(James 1:15), which is in hell.

That mean, if suppose, a Christian who is continue practically sins daily right now, never confess sins to Christ for long time, even through many years without confession, Christian's sins will lead to death(Spiritually-James 1:15), when a Christian dies(physical) without confession to Christ for long time. Christian is in hell already, that's period. No argument according James 1:15-16.

Salvation is conditional.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

Sounds to me like you are depending on your works to get you to heaven instead of grace.

I'll take the grace.

AJ

 

[ajg1959]

God doesn't remember them brother but some of His children can't seem to forgive themselves very well!!!:tear: :jesus:

We went through this on a couple of other threads recently.

I still want to know why some christians use the "consequences of sin" argument to justify unforgiveness?

After God has forgiven us, why do others who claim to be christians still hold our past sins against us?

AJ

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DRTimo: HP: How did you get all those posts? You must spend alot of time on the computer for someone who is praying 18-20 hours a day confessing and repenting of those sins?

HP: Maybe the time I spend conversing on spiritual things helps to keep the need for confession time to a minimum. This happens to be a large part of the work God has called me to for the present. I do want to be found about my Fathers business. :thumbs:

 

[EdSutton]

HP: No. God does not sin nor does he repent in the sense of repentance as in repentance of sins.

The problem you seem to imbibe is often repeated on this list. Words have different meanings and are used in different senses.

I am NOT trying to be unkind, but what I am amazed is how you, most likely an adult, could more than likely get a lesson on repentance from sin or wrongdoing from even a child with a little solid moral training. We have seemingly lost much of our moral compass.

FTR, I have never said one should not "repent of sin" once one is a believer. In fact, I have said one should do this very thing. What I have continually said is that that phrase is not to be found in Scripture, and that the repentance that is 'required' for salvation is specifically said to be directed "toward God" and "from dead works", as these two things are expressly and specifically declared in Scripture in Acts 20: 21 and Heb. 6:1. The word of God simply does not require that one 'take care of their sin problem' first, then they will be to the point where they then can be saved.

I fully understand that words have different meanings and are used in different senses. I simply deny that it is proper to redefine what Scripture says, by adding something to it. And I likewise deny that we will regain any "moral compass" by the twisting of Scripture in attempting to make Scripture say words it simply doesn't say.

I can easily count on two hands the number of times I have heard every preacher I have heard in >45 years say the Biblical phrases "repentance from dead works" and "repentance toward God" in all the sermons I have ever heard. I would need a calculator to count the number of times I have heard (and seen) the variations of the non-Biblical phrase "repent/repentance of/from (one's) sin(s)" in the same sermons and on the Baptist Board, even to the point of hearing it said that that was what God really meant, although He did not say it.

Does it not strike you as just a little odd [not to mention prideful and egotistical to a degree that would even put Lucifer, in his personae of the Kings of Tyre and Babylon, to shame (Isa. 14: 4b-21: Ezek. 28:11-19)] that anyone would portend (and pretend) to know what God meant, and God was not able to express this somehow, in His holy Word? Or is this just me??

Unlike some, apparently, I do not have any interest any "bait shop" around any "No-Fishing" zones.

Ed

 

[Dr. Timo]

HP: Maybe the time I spend conversing on spiritual things helps to keep the need for confession time to a minimum. This happens to be a large part of the work God has called me to for the present. I do want to be found about my Fathers business. :thumbs:

Maybe if you would read and understand Hebrews 7:25-27 you would realize that only Jesus is able to save to the utermost those who come to Him in faith. That's because He is the one making intercession for His children. Why are you trying to do Jesus' work? It seems to me you should just let Him forgive you and move on!!! If He's convicting you about something you need cleansing for to be able to serve Him His way that's fine. Then be obedient and deal with it. But don't tell me that your prayers are going to keep you being forgiven when His intercession does that!!!:laugh: :thumbsup: :jesus:

 

[Dr. Timo]

We went through this on a couple of other threads recently.

I still want to know why some christians use the "consequences of sin" argument to justify unforgiveness?

After God has forgiven us, why do others who claim to be christians still hold our past sins against us?

AJ

GOOD QUESTION BROTHER!!!:laugh: :thumbsup: :jesus:

 

[Eric B]

I would answer that, that in this world of religious dissent, so many people want to be the prophet calling all the sinning masses back to "repentance". So they not only hold people's sins against them,but they trump up or even concoct various issues in which they declare others are falling short (iven if they hold them as stiil 'saved'). Hence, the endless debates on baptism. the "true <€ church", sabbaths, music styles, "turning grace into license" eternal security, etc.

But even this desire to be some modern prophet is taking from the OT (the Law), and ultimately denies grace. The person presumes that they have gotten it all together in their own lives, so now God has "called" Him to lead others to "repentance". But in the process, he has forgotten his need for grace. (notice, grace becomes a "past received" thing, moreso than a continuing reality). So as was observed, it is very prideful.
And look at the FRUITS of it. We read Paul list the works of the flesh" and think that it's the commission of those acts that puts or keeps (or puts back) us "in the flesh". But they are clearly stated to be the results of something else. And notice that some of these 'works' include "variance", "strife", "heresies". This is what happens every time someone or some group rises up and tries to resurrect the Law with themselves as the prophets preaching at everyone else.

 

[Eric B]

Forgot to mention; great explanation, Ed, on the word "repentance". We take words like this and reuse them in our own familar ways so much, we don't even realize they're not actually used as such.
So repentance ends up used to bring us back to works, rather than trusting in works being what we actually repent of.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by ajg1959
After God has forgiven us, why do others who claim to be christians still hold our past sins against us?

AJ

HP: AJ, there are many reasons why that is possible. Possibly they see lip service of love towards God and man but feet that are slow to put into action those words. Possibly they see no real change of heart, no desire to right wrongs committed against our fellow man after one claims one believes, no sincere repentance. There again, they might be simply unforgiving and as such in error. We should always make certain that others do not have a legitimate reason to believe we have not had a sincere change of heart since we believed. We need to do everything in our power with the proffered help of the Holy Spirit to right wrongs against others committed before coming to the Lord. Restitution is a Scriptural principle.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

What about restitution? Is it fishing in a no fishing zone or is it a biblical mandate? Can there be clear forgiveness apart from an intent formed of willingness to right wrongs committed if that is possible? It has been a long time since I have even heard a minister of the gospel even mention it, let alone preach a message on restitution. Is it simply out of vogue today or is it simply not required?