I'm not trying to prove anything except that Jesus could not have been crucified on 15 Nisan. That would violate Jewish Law (not to mention the priests would have been involved in the Holy Assembly).
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Easter Malarkey
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No. Read the passage again.
Mark 14:12–17: On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb was being sacrificed (this would actually be 13 Nisan, around 2 pm, because the Passover fell on Friday.....whether right or wrong this was a law added to the Law by the Jews), His disciples *said to Him, “Where do You want us to go and prepare for You to eat the Passover?”
13 And He *sent two of His disciples and *said to them, “Go into the city, and a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him;
14 and wherever he enters, say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher says, “Where is My guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?” ’
15 “And he himself will show you a large upper room furnished and ready; prepare for us there.”
16 The disciples went out (this would be Wed afternoon) and came to the city, and found it just as He had told them; and they prepared the Passover.
17 When it was evening (this would be what we refer to as "evening", but no spe ific time is given) He *came with the ....
It isn't our way, but it ain't rocket science either.
I don’t think that the year Christ died, or even the day, matters. We know He rose on the first day of the week. But it is interesting to look at. Here is how I view the occurrences:
Tuesday - The Passover and Unleavened Bread (notice Mark combines the two…Luke does as well) when the priests conspired to kill Jesus. Their concern was that this not occur during the festival (15-21 Nisan, or Saturday to Friday). Mark 14:1-2
Thursday – Around 1 to 2 pm (evening of 14 Nisan) the Passover would have been killed per Jewish law (per the law that they had added to God’s Law).
Around this time Jesus sent two disciples to seek out where they would have the supper (it was already prepared). A few hours later, in the evening, Jesus arrived with the Twelve. “In the evening” typically means “between the evenings”, BTW.
Jesus observed Passover with the Disciples, went to the Garden, and was arrested by the priests. This is 14 Nissan, but Thursday night by our days.
Friday – Early in the morning the priests took Jesus to the Roman authorities. Around 9 am (the 6th hour, per John 19:15) Jesus was presented to His accusers who cried out “Crucify Him”, and He was handed over for crucifixion.
Around 3 pm (the ninth hour) Jesus cried out “Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabachthani?” and died.
This is a day of preparation as the Sabbath (Saturday) was the next day. This particular Sabbath was a “high day” (another holy day treated as a Sabbath was on the same day, that is the 15th of Nisan). Joseph asked for and was granted Jesus’ body. Nicodemus brought spices. There was a tomb very close, owned by Joseph, which was important because they needed to conduct the burial before the Sabbath began.
Joseph and Nicodemus (probably with servants) lay Jesus’ body in the tomb, wrapped it and used spices. The women followed them there and saw how the body lay. The women returned and mixed spices for anointing Jesus after the Sabbath.
Saturday – This is 15 Nisan. It is a day of the holy assembly and it falls on the Sabbath in 33 AD.
Sunday – Jesus rose from the grave, having spent 3 days and 3 nights (according to Jewish time keeping) in the grave. Jews used “night-days” to measure time. A portion counted as a whole (this is obvious looking at Ester’s fast for “three days and three nights”). This would have been about 3 hours on Friday, all day Saturday, and part of Sunday. This is not an idiom but a Hebraism. It is how they counted night-days.
Tuesday - The Passover and Unleavened Bread (notice Mark combines the two…Luke does as well) when the priests conspired to kill Jesus. Their concern was that this not occur during the festival (15-21 Nisan, or Saturday to Friday). Mark 14:1-2
Thursday – Around 1 to 2 pm (evening of 14 Nisan) the Passover would have been killed per Jewish law (per the law that they had added to God’s Law).
Around this time Jesus sent two disciples to seek out where they would have the supper (it was already prepared). A few hours later, in the evening, Jesus arrived with the Twelve. “In the evening” typically means “between the evenings”, BTW.
Jesus observed Passover with the Disciples, went to the Garden, and was arrested by the priests. This is 14 Nissan, but Thursday night by our days.
Friday – Early in the morning the priests took Jesus to the Roman authorities. Around 9 am (the 6th hour, per John 19:15) Jesus was presented to His accusers who cried out “Crucify Him”, and He was handed over for crucifixion.
Around 3 pm (the ninth hour) Jesus cried out “Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabachthani?” and died.
This is a day of preparation as the Sabbath (Saturday) was the next day. This particular Sabbath was a “high day” (another holy day treated as a Sabbath was on the same day, that is the 15th of Nisan). Joseph asked for and was granted Jesus’ body. Nicodemus brought spices. There was a tomb very close, owned by Joseph, which was important because they needed to conduct the burial before the Sabbath began.
Joseph and Nicodemus (probably with servants) lay Jesus’ body in the tomb, wrapped it and used spices. The women followed them there and saw how the body lay. The women returned and mixed spices for anointing Jesus after the Sabbath.
Saturday – This is 15 Nisan. It is a day of the holy assembly and it falls on the Sabbath in 33 AD.
Sunday – Jesus rose from the grave, having spent 3 days and 3 nights (according to Jewish time keeping) in the grave. Jews used “night-days” to measure time. A portion counted as a whole (this is obvious looking at Ester’s fast for “three days and three nights”). This would have been about 3 hours on Friday, all day Saturday, and part of Sunday. This is not an idiom but a Hebraism. It is how they counted night-days.
37818
Well-Known Member
Well then s big Biblical problem.
Per Mark 14:12-16 was the 14th of Nisan and the day
before Jesus was crucified on the 15th. The Jews had an illegal trial. The Romans did the crucifixion.
37818
Well-Known Member
Well, the first day of unleavened bread was the start of14th per Exodus 12. And 13th is not Biblically so.
Uh, no. According to Mark it was ," the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb was being sacrificed".
Per Jewish law the Passover extended to first evening with the Lamb being sacrificed mid afternoon, about an hour and a half earlier in years where the Passover falls on Friday.
Mark was correct. You are wrong.
Mark also refers to the "Pasdover and Unleavened Bread", and Luke says "Passover" and "Feast of Unleavened Bread" are the same. They are not in the OT. But by the 1st Century they had blended.
Mark identifies this time as when the Passover is killed, perhaps for clarity given how the week was viewed.
You seem to be working very hard to find an error in Mark. Is there a reason?
No, it wasn't.
In the OT the Passover (Nisan 14) was distinct from the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Nisan 15-21).
Nisan 15 is actually the first day of Unleavened Bread, and it is a day of the Holy Assembly when no work can be done. The Jews assembled with the priests, read and meditated on the Exodus.
But yes, by the 1st Century the priests had added their own laws.
The question is not "what should they have done per Exodus 12?" but "what did they do in the 1st Century?".
And we know what they did. Around 2 to 3 they killed the passover, sacrificing it about 2 hours later. This was done to make sure no work was done on 15 Nisan.
And if Passover falls on a Friday this schedule was moved up 1.5 hours. This was to make sure no work was done on the Sabbath.
That is not in Exodus. But as Jesus observed, the Jews had moved away from following the Law and followed laws of their own making.
I don't mind. It was taken from the Month of Ēostre which was translated "Paschal" month (month of the Passover) referring to April.
At one time the month was associated to a goddess, but so was Saturday and we use "Saturday" with no association to the pagan god.
…well, everything about His trial by night was against Jewish law and amounted to nothing less than judicial murder.
Just sayin…
It was against God's Law.
The priests had declined to the point Jesus referred to them as satanic.
But the trial by night was because they had to get it done in secret ans before the festival to prevent a riot. And John 3 comes to mind (about doing evil at night).
37818
Well-Known Member
There is no error in Mark 14:12. It is explicitly 14th of (Nisan) Abib [Deuteronomy 16:1] per Exodus 12 [Exodus 13:4]. And Mark 14:12 explicitly places the 14th the day before the crucifixion.
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There is no error, I agree.
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37818
Well-Known Member
That is what Mark 14:12, And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . .
Per Exodus 12.
@37818 ,
I am going to try this again as I think you are missing something.
The Passover was killed on the eve of Passover (on 14 Nisan) at 3 pm unless the Passover falls on Friday, then it's at 2pm. We'd say the day before, but it was after evening (first evening) had begun (Nisan 14).
Mark 14: On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb was being sacrificed, His disciples said to Him, “Where do You want us to go and prepare for You to eat the Passover?”
This is Nisan 14 (2 pm before the Passover). It is past noon (the sun has passed beyond its apex).
17 When it was evening He came with the twelve.
This is the evening and the animal had already been sacrificed (between the evenings). People would eat the meal after the sacrifice was complete.
Jews observed a "night-day" calendar (it is a lunar calendar). The reason is "the evening and the morning were the first day".
The animal was sacrificed in the evening of 14 Nisan. And when evening had come the Jews participated in the meal. These are not simultaneous events.
The animal was sacrificed IN THE EVENING. When "evening has come" it is sunset (the start of night).
The first evening is when the sun passes it's apex (past "high noon"). The second evening is sunset, as evening has come and night is beginning.
I am going to try this again as I think you are missing something.
The Passover was killed on the eve of Passover (on 14 Nisan) at 3 pm unless the Passover falls on Friday, then it's at 2pm. We'd say the day before, but it was after evening (first evening) had begun (Nisan 14).
Mark 14: On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb was being sacrificed, His disciples said to Him, “Where do You want us to go and prepare for You to eat the Passover?”
This is Nisan 14 (2 pm before the Passover). It is past noon (the sun has passed beyond its apex).
17 When it was evening He came with the twelve.
This is the evening and the animal had already been sacrificed (between the evenings). People would eat the meal after the sacrifice was complete.
Jews observed a "night-day" calendar (it is a lunar calendar). The reason is "the evening and the morning were the first day".
The animal was sacrificed in the evening of 14 Nisan. And when evening had come the Jews participated in the meal. These are not simultaneous events.
The animal was sacrificed IN THE EVENING. When "evening has come" it is sunset (the start of night).
The first evening is when the sun passes it's apex (past "high noon"). The second evening is sunset, as evening has come and night is beginning.
Lol.....no. You are reading the actual Exodus account. They experienced tge Pasdover and were given the Feast as an observance (they didn't eat the meal and then have a feast for 7 days waiting to leave Egypt).
You are in the wrong place.
Leviticus 23:4–8 These are the appointed times of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at the times appointed for them.
5 ‘In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover.
6 ‘Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread.
7 ‘On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.
8 ‘But for seven days you shall present an offering by fire to the Lord. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.’ ”
The Passover was observed when evening had come (twilight). BUT this is the meal eaten in Exodus 12. The passover was slain IN the evening. The sacrifice was made afterwards.
BUT the Passover was observed when evening had come.
Then, on the 15th of that month, is the Feast of Unleavened Bread. This is a holy day, a "Sabbath", where no work is done.
In Luke's time, pascha only meant passover. It's the same word JESUS used for passover.
Yep. Pascha didn't mean "Easter". "Easter" as we know it was derived from the month.
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