Come on, DHK! "Because Spurgeon and others developed a wrong theology, doesn't make the Bible teaching on ecclesiology wrong." is that "Bible teaching on ecclesiology" perhaps 'the DHK teaching on ecclesiology'? I should think twice before I challenge Spurgeon!
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Ecclesia vs. Hetaeria
- Thread starter Thinkingstuff
- Start date
Since when did Spurgeon become God?Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Spurgeon did not allow musical instruments, including the piano or the organ to be played during his services. Do you also agree?
Spurgeon smoked cigars. Do you also agree?
Spurgeon's theology is such that the Calviinist claims him for a Calvinist and the non-Calvinist claims him as a non-Calvinist. Does that mean he is double-minded in all his theology?
The plain simple fact that you are unwilling to accept is that ekklesia means assembly. On this earth it is impossible to have an unassembled assembly. Where and when and how do all believers of the world assemble together? You have yet to explain the logistics of this so-called "assembly." An assembly is local by its very definition.
DHK:
"Spurgeon did not allow musical instruments, including the piano or the organ to be played during his services. Do you also agree?"
GE
Interesting, I did not know. But funny, I like the idea! The moment one introduces musical instruments or just the solo voice, worship tends to become a concert with man and his ego the centre. I used to play the piano - rather good, I must say myself, and boy, the 'fans' I had. I tell you nothing distracts from Christ like being 'talented'. Even in my old age that pride hasn't gone away, and I still cry, "Who will rid my of this body of sin and death?" I thank God, through Jesus Christ! O, it's so much lighter nowadays to be humble because to humble thoroughly, is the Good Healer's best medicine.
Then I am a Calvinist, as you know, and he too, didn't like the idea of too much music for holding Church (as we say in Afrikaans) was a good thing. No, Spurgeon had a point! But even if he were wrong, what difference does it make re 'Church' as Congrgegation versus 'Church' not as Congregation ... ONLY. That's my point: I don't deny "Holy Assembly" (despite it's unholiness); I believe it, while I also believe the invisible Assembly of Faith. This is no new 'problem'. The Apostolic Cofession already where it confesses the Church, confesses both aspect of the Church being both the Assembly of the saints and the 'catholic Church'.
"Spurgeon did not allow musical instruments, including the piano or the organ to be played during his services. Do you also agree?"
GE
Interesting, I did not know. But funny, I like the idea! The moment one introduces musical instruments or just the solo voice, worship tends to become a concert with man and his ego the centre. I used to play the piano - rather good, I must say myself, and boy, the 'fans' I had. I tell you nothing distracts from Christ like being 'talented'. Even in my old age that pride hasn't gone away, and I still cry, "Who will rid my of this body of sin and death?" I thank God, through Jesus Christ! O, it's so much lighter nowadays to be humble because to humble thoroughly, is the Good Healer's best medicine.
Then I am a Calvinist, as you know, and he too, didn't like the idea of too much music for holding Church (as we say in Afrikaans) was a good thing. No, Spurgeon had a point! But even if he were wrong, what difference does it make re 'Church' as Congrgegation versus 'Church' not as Congregation ... ONLY. That's my point: I don't deny "Holy Assembly" (despite it's unholiness); I believe it, while I also believe the invisible Assembly of Faith. This is no new 'problem'. The Apostolic Cofession already where it confesses the Church, confesses both aspect of the Church being both the Assembly of the saints and the 'catholic Church'.
DHK:
"Spurgeon smoked cigars. Do you also agree?"
GE
Gee! I don't smoke - horrible effects, but again, some great role-models of mine were smokers. Bonnhoeffer admiitted total addiction to tobacco while he was in jail for his faith in Christ. Karl Barth - when I see his picture in my mind, it's with his pipe. My very best and only friend of my youth, whom I admired till this day, he is a smoker of cigarettes. But who does not know smoking kills in an ugly way? Must one also spiritually crucify such as are its slaves? What about MY, BIG, sins -I know them, won't mention them ever, but I know them as were they each worse than the unforgiveable sin - but denounce a godly man for smoking?
But I do NOT agree, simply maybe because we live in quite another age than Spurgeon - a much 'greener' age. One of our most excellent Afrikaners, Eugene Marais, who wrote poetry and nature from heaven for heaven and eternity so beautiful, he was an opium addict, and his maledy cost him his life - so miserable and tragic it breaks the heart of the hardest. God, thank you, for Eugene Marais.
"Spurgeon smoked cigars. Do you also agree?"
GE
Gee! I don't smoke - horrible effects, but again, some great role-models of mine were smokers. Bonnhoeffer admiitted total addiction to tobacco while he was in jail for his faith in Christ. Karl Barth - when I see his picture in my mind, it's with his pipe. My very best and only friend of my youth, whom I admired till this day, he is a smoker of cigarettes. But who does not know smoking kills in an ugly way? Must one also spiritually crucify such as are its slaves? What about MY, BIG, sins -I know them, won't mention them ever, but I know them as were they each worse than the unforgiveable sin - but denounce a godly man for smoking?
But I do NOT agree, simply maybe because we live in quite another age than Spurgeon - a much 'greener' age. One of our most excellent Afrikaners, Eugene Marais, who wrote poetry and nature from heaven for heaven and eternity so beautiful, he was an opium addict, and his maledy cost him his life - so miserable and tragic it breaks the heart of the hardest. God, thank you, for Eugene Marais.
DHK:
"The plain simple fact that you are unwilling to accept is that ekklesia means assembly."
GE:
And the plain simple fact that you are unwilling to accept is that ekklesia means assembly, spiritually as well as physically.
"The plain simple fact that you are unwilling to accept is that ekklesia means assembly."
GE:
And the plain simple fact that you are unwilling to accept is that ekklesia means assembly, spiritually as well as physically.
DHK:
"Where and when and how do all believers of the world assemble together? You have yet to explain the logistics of this so-called "assembly." An assembly is local by its very definition."
GE:
Jesus gave us his definition, his 'explanation', and his 'logistics': "Where two or three come together in My Name, there, I shall be, in their midst." I don't emphasise any one or more words, but each speaks for itself its emphatic distinctive meaning. What do you want more: "In My Name", like Huss in his dungeon and Tyndale in his. But most likely, exactly never in 'assemblies' thousands and ten thousands strong - specifically no assembly of true saints to be found there, but when He shall come to judge the world! Meantime, Jesus provided amply and aptly in the 'logistic' needs of His Church in or outside of Assembly: "Do not YOU (the Church) let yourself be judged or damned by anyone (not the Church) re your eating and drinking, or, re your eating and drinking of feast or of month's Sabbaths'-feast" ... of Jesus Christ: He gave His Church His Sabbath Day, The Lord's Day; And at the same time, gave His Church His Sabbaths' and month's Sabbaths' Feast of spiritually "eating and drinking" of Christ: "The Lord's Supper". Could you improve on these logistics for God's Church? I cannot see how.
"Where and when and how do all believers of the world assemble together? You have yet to explain the logistics of this so-called "assembly." An assembly is local by its very definition."
GE:
Jesus gave us his definition, his 'explanation', and his 'logistics': "Where two or three come together in My Name, there, I shall be, in their midst." I don't emphasise any one or more words, but each speaks for itself its emphatic distinctive meaning. What do you want more: "In My Name", like Huss in his dungeon and Tyndale in his. But most likely, exactly never in 'assemblies' thousands and ten thousands strong - specifically no assembly of true saints to be found there, but when He shall come to judge the world! Meantime, Jesus provided amply and aptly in the 'logistic' needs of His Church in or outside of Assembly: "Do not YOU (the Church) let yourself be judged or damned by anyone (not the Church) re your eating and drinking, or, re your eating and drinking of feast or of month's Sabbaths'-feast" ... of Jesus Christ: He gave His Church His Sabbath Day, The Lord's Day; And at the same time, gave His Church His Sabbaths' and month's Sabbaths' Feast of spiritually "eating and drinking" of Christ: "The Lord's Supper". Could you improve on these logistics for God's Church? I cannot see how.
There is no such thing as a spiritual assembly except in heaven.Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Acts 19:39 But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful assembly.
Acts 19:41 And when he had thus spoken, he dismissed the assembly.
Here is the same word (ekklesia) that is translated "church." It is assembly, correctly translated here. There is no way that it can be spiritual is there? It is an assembly. The mayor had to dismiss it. The assembly was gathered together in one place--the theater. It was gathered together for a purpose--the persecution of Paul. It was local.
Every time the ekklesia is mentioned in the Bible it is mentioned in a local visible sense. That is the only way that it can be used. Words have definitions. Accept it.
The Greek word ekklesia is translated as Church, but it most literally means "assembly." Solomon was King of the Assembly of Israel, and we call one of his books Ecclesiastes in reference to this.
God's Church, His Assembly, is His Body (1 Cor. 12:12-13). This is so much so, that when Christ rebuked Saul on the way to Damascus "Saul, Saul, why persecuteth thou Me?" (Acts 9:4) when he was persecuting the faithful.
Christ established the Church at Pentecost when He sent down the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1ff).
Christ promised that the power of Hades, the power of death, would never overcome it (Mt. 16:18).
Christ promised us that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church into all truth (Jn. 16:13).
Because of these things, the Apostle Paul promised that the Church is the very foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
Because of this guidance, the Church is our ground and guide in faith. It is our assurance of the Scripture (2 Tim. 3.14-17) and in all other matters of faith.
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God's Church, His Assembly, is His Body (1 Cor. 12:12-13). This is so much so, that when Christ rebuked Saul on the way to Damascus "Saul, Saul, why persecuteth thou Me?" (Acts 9:4) when he was persecuting the faithful.
Christ established the Church at Pentecost when He sent down the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1ff).
Christ promised that the power of Hades, the power of death, would never overcome it (Mt. 16:18).
Christ promised us that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church into all truth (Jn. 16:13).
Because of these things, the Apostle Paul promised that the Church is the very foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
Because of this guidance, the Church is our ground and guide in faith. It is our assurance of the Scripture (2 Tim. 3.14-17) and in all other matters of faith.
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DHK:
"There is no such thing as a spiritual assembly except in heaven."
GE
There is no such thing as a spiritual assembly except on earth of believers. 'Heaven' is on earth, not 'in heaven'; 'heaven' is where God and Christ is; God is not where 'heaven' is. Joseph's tomb was 'heaven' in a "heavenly" manner. "In heavenly places" is where God and when God, raised Christ from the dead: "In the flesh". Christ is the Glory of the Father, and his resurrected and glorified Body, the Temple of God -- 'in heaven', on earth, where He, promised to be "in their midst". We are not concerned with trigometry; we are concerned with the things of God which are spiritual, and His Ecclesia is spiritual.
Again, that does not exclude or deny "a lawful assembly" -- it gives the grounds and cause of it.
"Every time the ekklesia is mentioned in the Bible it is mentioned in a local visible sense. That is the only way that it can be used. Words have definitions. Accept it." No I won't, not until I have had time to go over each case of the word. Have a good day, I must go to bed now.
"There is no such thing as a spiritual assembly except in heaven."
GE
There is no such thing as a spiritual assembly except on earth of believers. 'Heaven' is on earth, not 'in heaven'; 'heaven' is where God and Christ is; God is not where 'heaven' is. Joseph's tomb was 'heaven' in a "heavenly" manner. "In heavenly places" is where God and when God, raised Christ from the dead: "In the flesh". Christ is the Glory of the Father, and his resurrected and glorified Body, the Temple of God -- 'in heaven', on earth, where He, promised to be "in their midst". We are not concerned with trigometry; we are concerned with the things of God which are spiritual, and His Ecclesia is spiritual.
Again, that does not exclude or deny "a lawful assembly" -- it gives the grounds and cause of it.
"Every time the ekklesia is mentioned in the Bible it is mentioned in a local visible sense. That is the only way that it can be used. Words have definitions. Accept it." No I won't, not until I have had time to go over each case of the word. Have a good day, I must go to bed now.
So what church will Jesus build in Mt. 16:18? The word for church in that verse is singular.DHK said:
The same word that is used for synagogue in many cases especially in the gospels and Acts is translated assembly in James 2:2. The basic meaning of the Greek word means assembly.
Sunagogh in the Greek NT
Matt 4:23
Matt 6:2
Matt 6:5
Matt 9:35
Matt 10:17
Matt 12:9
Matt 13:54
Matt 23:6
Matt 23:34
Mark 1:21
Mark 1:23
Mark 1:29
Mark 1:39
Mark 3:1
Mark 6:2
Mark 12:39
Mark 13:9
Luke 4:15, 16
Luke 4:20
Luke 4:28
Luke 4:33
Luke 4:38
Luke 4:44
Luke 6:6
Luke 7:5
Luke 8:41
Luke 11:43
Luke 12:11
Luke 13:10
Luke 20:46
Luke 21:12
John 6:59
John 18:20
Acts 6:9
Acts 9:2
Acts 9:20
Acts 13:5
Acts 13:14
Acts 13:43
Acts 14:1
Acts 15:21
Acts 17:1
Acts 17:10
Acts 17:17
Acts 18:4
Acts 18:7
Acts 18:19
Acts 18:26
Acts 19:8
Acts 22:19
Acts 24:12
Acts 26:11
Jame 2:2
Reve 2:9
Reve 3:9
Ekklhsia in the Greek NT
Matt 16:18 (GNT)
Matt 18:17
Acts 5:11
Acts 7:38
Acts 8:1
Acts 8:3
Acts 9:31
Acts 11:22
Acts 11:26
Acts 12:1
Acts 12:5
Acts 13:1
Acts 14:23
Acts 14:27
Acts 15:3, 4
Acts 15:22
Acts 15:41
Acts 16:5
Acts 18:22
Acts 19:32
Acts 19:39, 40
Acts 20:17
Acts 20:28
Roma 16:1
Roma 16:4, 5
Roma 16:16
Roma 16:23
1Cor 1:2
1Cor 4:17
1Cor 6:4
1Cor 7:17
1Cor 10:32
1Cor 11:16
1Cor 11:18
1Cor 11:22
1Cor 12:28
1Cor 14:4, 5
1Cor 14:12
1Cor 14:19
1Cor 14:23
1Cor 14:28
1Cor 14:33-35
1Cor 15:9
1Cor 16:1
1Cor 16:19
2Cor 1:1
2Cor 8:1
2Cor 8:18, 19
2Cor 8:23, 24
2Cor 11:8
2Cor 11:28
2Cor 12:13
Gala 1:2
Gala 1:13
Gala 1:22
Ephe 1:22
Ephe 3:10
Ephe 3:21
Ephe 5:23-25
Ephe 5:27
Ephe 5:29
Ephe 5:32
Phil 3:6
Phil 4:15
Colo 1:18
Colo 1:24
Colo 4:15, 16
1The 1:1
1The 2:14
2The 1:1
2The 1:4
1Tim 3:5
1Tim 3:15
1Tim 5:16
Phle 1:2
Hebr 2:12
Hebr 12:23
Jame 5:14
3Joh 1:6
3Joh 1:9, 10
Reve 1:4
Reve 1:11
Reve 1:20
Reve 2:1
Reve 2:7, 8
Reve 2:1, 12
Reve 2:17, 18
Reve 2:23
Reve 2:29
Reve3:1
Reve 3:6, 7
Reve 3:13, 14
Reve 3:22
Reve 22:16
Matt 4:23
Matt 6:2
Matt 6:5
Matt 9:35
Matt 10:17
Matt 12:9
Matt 13:54
Matt 23:6
Matt 23:34
Mark 1:21
Mark 1:23
Mark 1:29
Mark 1:39
Mark 3:1
Mark 6:2
Mark 12:39
Mark 13:9
Luke 4:15, 16
Luke 4:20
Luke 4:28
Luke 4:33
Luke 4:38
Luke 4:44
Luke 6:6
Luke 7:5
Luke 8:41
Luke 11:43
Luke 12:11
Luke 13:10
Luke 20:46
Luke 21:12
John 6:59
John 18:20
Acts 6:9
Acts 9:2
Acts 9:20
Acts 13:5
Acts 13:14
Acts 13:43
Acts 14:1
Acts 15:21
Acts 17:1
Acts 17:10
Acts 17:17
Acts 18:4
Acts 18:7
Acts 18:19
Acts 18:26
Acts 19:8
Acts 22:19
Acts 24:12
Acts 26:11
Jame 2:2
Reve 2:9
Reve 3:9
Ekklhsia in the Greek NT
Matt 16:18 (GNT)
Matt 18:17
Acts 5:11
Acts 7:38
Acts 8:1
Acts 8:3
Acts 9:31
Acts 11:22
Acts 11:26
Acts 12:1
Acts 12:5
Acts 13:1
Acts 14:23
Acts 14:27
Acts 15:3, 4
Acts 15:22
Acts 15:41
Acts 16:5
Acts 18:22
Acts 19:32
Acts 19:39, 40
Acts 20:17
Acts 20:28
Roma 16:1
Roma 16:4, 5
Roma 16:16
Roma 16:23
1Cor 1:2
1Cor 4:17
1Cor 6:4
1Cor 7:17
1Cor 10:32
1Cor 11:16
1Cor 11:18
1Cor 11:22
1Cor 12:28
1Cor 14:4, 5
1Cor 14:12
1Cor 14:19
1Cor 14:23
1Cor 14:28
1Cor 14:33-35
1Cor 15:9
1Cor 16:1
1Cor 16:19
2Cor 1:1
2Cor 8:1
2Cor 8:18, 19
2Cor 8:23, 24
2Cor 11:8
2Cor 11:28
2Cor 12:13
Gala 1:2
Gala 1:13
Gala 1:22
Ephe 1:22
Ephe 3:10
Ephe 3:21
Ephe 5:23-25
Ephe 5:27
Ephe 5:29
Ephe 5:32
Phil 3:6
Phil 4:15
Colo 1:18
Colo 1:24
Colo 4:15, 16
1The 1:1
1The 2:14
2The 1:1
2The 1:4
1Tim 3:5
1Tim 3:15
1Tim 5:16
Phle 1:2
Hebr 2:12
Hebr 12:23
Jame 5:14
3Joh 1:6
3Joh 1:9, 10
Reve 1:4
Reve 1:11
Reve 1:20
Reve 2:1
Reve 2:7, 8
Reve 2:1, 12
Reve 2:17, 18
Reve 2:23
Reve 2:29
Reve3:1
Reve 3:6, 7
Reve 3:13, 14
Reve 3:22
Reve 22:16
The OT was written in Hebrew, not Greek. There was no ekklesia in the OT. It is a NT word. You are off topic or trying to go off on a red herring.Agnus_Dei said:
Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
--He persecuted one church--the ekklesia which was at Jerusalem. It was a local assembly. Read your Bible.
You might call it that, but I don't. More accurately this is the Dispensation of Grace, or perhaps "the Age of the Churches." Paul, on three missionary journeys established over one hundred churches. He didn't establish "A Church." The church at Pentecost was the church at Jerusalem. It was one church, a local church, and on that day there were three thousand souls added to that church. It was a historical event that will never again be repeated in history.
Christ was speaking to his Apostles. You just admitted that the church started on the Day of Pentecost, so he must be speaking in general or generic terminology here.
For example we say: "Man" has sinned. What man? Jack? Joe? Jim? Which one? The word is in the singular, but it used to represent all men.
When Jesus used the word "church" he used it generically--in the singular to represent all Biblically-based churches. The gates of hell will not prevail against all Biblically-based local churches. This of course automatically excludes the RCC and the Orthodox who do not have the Bible as their base or foundation. They have opened wide the doors of Hell to their churches. Their plan of salvation is a salvation of works and not of grace through faith.
That is not what that verse says. The word ekklesia isn't even used there. Jesus is speaking to his Apostles and that is all. You are reading into Scripture things that are not there.
Paul promised Timothy, the pastor of the church of Ephesus that his ekklesia, or assembly was the pillar and foundation of the truth. Every local church needs to be the pillar and foundation of the truth in their own community. If it is not that particular local church is utterly useless to the Lord.
It is the local church, relying on sola scriptura, that becomes the pillar and ground of the truth. It is the ground of the truth. Its foundation is the Word of God. Everything that it says or preaches is based on the Word of God (not tradition). It is the pillar of the truth. As it sends forth the Word, it, like a pillar upholds God's Word to the community so that all the community will hear it. It is evangelistic in its very nature. Every local church needs to be this way.
The OT was written in Aramaic and Hebrew.DHK said:
In the LXX, ekklesia is found in
Judg 20:2
Judg 21:5
1Kin 17:47
3Kin 8:14
3Kin 8:65
1Chr 13:2
1Chr 13:4
1Chr 29:1
1Chr 29:20
2Chr 1:3
2Chr 1:5
2Chr 6:3
2Chr 7:8
2Chr 10:3
2Chr 20:5
2Chr 20:14
2Chr 23:3
2Chr 29:28
2Chr 29:31, 32
2Chr 30:2
2Chr 30:13
2Chr 30:23-25
2Esd 2:64
2Esd 10:1
2Esd 10:12
2Esd 10:14
2Esd 15:13
2Esd 17:66
2Esd 18:17
2Esd 23:1
Judi 14:6
1Mac 2:56
1Mac 4:59
1Mac 5:16
Psal 21:26
Psal 34:18
Psal 39:10
Psal 88:6
Psal 106:32
Psal 149:1
Job 30:28
Sir 21:17
Sir 24:2
Sir 31:11
Sir 38:33
Sir 39:10
Sir 44:15
PsSo 10:6
Mica 2:5
Romans 3:23 answers that question.
Which church is that described in Rev. 2&3?
The word ekklesian which stems from ekklesia is use in Mt. 16:18.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
A dispensation of grace I can go with, though, "the Age of the churches" is way out. I Jesus never intended there to be an age of churches. Look at his last prayer: That we would be one. I find it contradictory to Jesus and christianity.
He spoke to His disciples that they may be one, and that we as believers may be one--not that churches may be one. He never prayed that.Thinkingstuff said:
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
When we become saved we become the "children of God," or part of His family. In that sense Christ prayed for His family to be united. He was not praying for a unity of churches. There was no church mentioned in John 17. It was a unity of believers. John speaks of the family of God. He speaks of being born again in John chapter 3. He does not speak of churches. He does not use the word ekklesia.
And don’t forget the key words DHK…and THEY (meaning the Church) were all scattered and where DHK did Saul turn his attention to next? Maybe it was Damascus; since he threatened to bring those in Damascus to Jerusalem and then began to travel to Damascus…see ACTS 9:2. (maybe you should take your own advice…and read your Bible)DHK said:
It’s perfectly logical to see the Church as one, yet have the Church in different locations...this is a big world DHK...
As an Orthodox Christian, I can leave Wichita, Ks and my home Orthodox Church which is Antiochian and go to Russia and visit a Russian Orthodox Church and witness the exact same Liturgy and recite the exact same Creed (if I knew Russian)…I can then visit Greece and attend a Greek Orthodox Church and again witness the same Liturgy and recite the same Creed (If I knew Greek).
There’s hundreds of Orthodox Christian Churches through out the world, but we’re all unified by our Liturgy, by our Creed and that’s what has sustained and unified the Orthodox Church through countless eras of persecution and continues to do so today and whatever the future may hold. After all, Christ keeps His promise…
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Darron Steele
New Member
What is further, I can leave my home congregation at First Christian Church in Madison, Indiana and walk a few dozen seconds to First Baptist Church in Madison, Indiana. There, I will find people who serve the same Savior and Lord Jesus Christ that I do.Agnus_Dei said:
I can drive a few miles north of my home in the evening and go to a local Church of Christ congregation. There, I will find people who serve the same Savior and Lord Jesus Christ that I do.
Between them, I can go to several Independent Christian churches, other Church of Christ congregations, other Baptist congregations, several Methodist congregations, a Mennonite congregation, at least one Wesleyan congregation, some Lutheran and Presbyterian congregations, Catholic congregations, some Pentecostal congregations of various types, etc. etc.. In all those places, I will find people who serve the same Savior and Lord Jesus Christ that I do.
Then, I can go out from between that swath of land and find countless congregations of myriads of types, including Orthodox, and all over the world. In all those places, I will find people who serve the same Savior and Lord Jesus Christ that I do.
We are all assembled together into one community of followers of Jesus Christ when He adds us -- Acts 2:47. All over the world, regardless of where they are, they all serve the same Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
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This is good thinking Darron, and quite logical, providing that all the churches you speak of are Bible-believing churches and not apostate.Darron Steele said:
Acts 2:47 was specific to the church at Jerusalem. There is no such thing as an assembly that cannot be assembled. It is a contradiction of terms. How can an assembly be scattered all over the world? It can't, for it can't be called to assemble at any one time. It can't congregate. It can't make decisions. It can't discipline any member. There are no deacons. There is no preacher. The whole concept flies in the very definition of the word assembly. It cannot work. If defies all common sense, and the Bible speaks of no such monster.
Is your criteria just “bible-believing” DHK? Where are the criteria that one has to determine an authentic bible-believing church? Then how was the criteria interpreted and from where? Next, who has the authority to correctly identify a “bible-believing” church and thus pronounce another church…”apostate”?DHK said:
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