Ecumenical Movement

[latterrain77]

Hi David. Thank you for the reply. I very much like your definition of “ecumenical.” Unfortunately, that is NOT what the real “ecumenical” movement is all about. What you have described is evangelical work. The ecumenical crowd is rarely interested in actually DOING what you have described (though they sure do TALK a lot about it). In the end, they do little of anything but talk, and gather, and pontificate about all manner of vanity.

I’m with you, that anytime Christians gather together to help the “sick and needy” GREAT things can happen. Unfortunately, this is not the ecumenical stuff that I have seen in my own walk. I have seen nonsense practiced by church power grabbers (some of them “country club” types - some of them not).

We are in agreement that your definition of ecumenical action (which I call evangelical) is superb. However, we do differ in our interpretations of Mark 9: 37-39.

latterrain77

 

[Bro. Curtis]

To me, ecumenical is epitomized by Billy Graham on the same stage with Catholic Bishops.

And I know this is going to ruffle some feathers but the Southern Baptist Conventions of late are showing some pretty scary ecumenical tendancies.

I think the example of folks refusing to save somebody in grave danger is absurd. But I see no problem with refusing to co-operate in youth groups, tent meetings, or things like that.

 

[SBG]

Latterrain, that was a very good post. The issue that people take offense with, is separation. The Bible is so clear on this. We are to come out from among them! A baptist, has no business fellowshipping with a catholic, for an example.
Because, where do you draw the line? After you start fellowship with groups that are different from you on doctrinal issues, the next step is that "we" will be expected to hold joint "prayer" meetings with muslims, jews, hindus etc.

 

[Sherrie]

I do not want my family exposed to anything but what I have been teaching them about Jesus Christ...Until they are old enough to know what is right. Then they have to make their own decisions.

In my house we are Christians first. When we go to church, we go to be in fellowship with other christians, who believe in Jesus Christ, and Worship God. We then worship together in an unity lifting up His Holy Name.

It is not about being Baptist or Lutheran. But how can we worship our God together with others who pray to the Virgin Mary, confess sins to a man, Who think being saved is joining a church, and partake in communion in a different mannerism than the bible teaches. How can we be in service with those who don't believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, but as a prophet. Then our worship is not in unity together. It is chaos. Rituals are what stands in our way of being one Worship.

Yet there will be a day when we will all have to do so. It will not be about who was Baptist, or Catholic, or even Jewish. It will be about being a member of Jesus Christ.

Doing works in soup kitchens and things like that are good. They are just that. Good works. They will not be what saves you. But reaching out and serving others with your christian heart...doing in Jesus name...is serving God.

Would you let a man starve because he was not Baptist? Would you let him go naked because he doesn't attend your church? Because he sings praise songs and you only sing out of a hymnal? What if what you do, is what brings another man to God, and not what you told him?

We have a Ministerial Alliance in our town...it encludes the Baptist and the Catholics. We help the drifters and homeless, Christmas for kids, pay Utility bills for people...even take people to hospitals far off,and even travelers who are broke down are helped. Should we say because we do not agree with the catholics, that we have to leave that alliance or they do? What should we do?

Is our worship seperate from how we really live?

 

[Bob Alkire]

Quote by Clint;
Ecumenicism waters down a church's doctrine. It threatens the purity of the belief system that men were jailed and beaten to preserve in the early days of this denomination. It is a real danger to the preperation of the Bride awaiting Christ's return. It also potentialy thratens the very salvation of the individual believer
==================================================
I agree with you 100% here, for what that is worth(not much).
So much of the history of the early Church and early Baptist as well as World and U.S. history isn't taught today. I think it should be, not just the good but the bad also, and put into the world of the time(not into today to judge) it happened. Baptist as well as other Christians had it hard in this country (jail and other things), and so many came here to get away from the same.

I wrote a book on photography for training back in the 60's and came back there in 1967 to give a class. I found out they were still using the book but they were not teaching, lighting and to how to pose to get the best photo. I was told by the teachers that I didn't fully understand what was taught within the book, I was holding photographers back. All I did was show who the writter was. They didn't agree with me on the how but they were free to write their own and teach it.
I can love you, care for you, but I don't want you to teach your theology to me, if I disagree with it, we might vote the same, like fried chicken and such, but don't water down theology,God, or history. Write your own, but don't teach your view out of my book and don't water down the history(Thomas Payne couldn't even be buried in a cemetary, because of his view, none would take his body, so his view was the paramount view of the day).

[ August 30, 2002, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: Bob Alkire ]

 

[onevoice]

Originally posted by Sherrie:
[QB]I do not want my family exposed to anything but what I have been teaching them about Jesus Christ...Until they are old enough to know what is right. Then they have to make their own decisions.

QB]

Don't let them watch any TV (including news), read the paper, go to school, or have friends.

 

[onevoice]

My question in this area is do you believe that Baptists are the only ones going to Heaven?

 

[Sherrie]

onevoice

No I do not think Baptist are the only ones going to Heaven. And I do monitor what My kids do watch on TV and what they read!

But I am very open minded as far as a lot of things go...but worshipping the way Catholics worship is wrong. I have made this statement more than once on several topics.

I do however teach my children to serve God, believe and trust God; know that He gave His Son Jesus Christ, and His Spirit does dwell in them. I am very happy to say they have a wonderful relationship with God.

They also do chairity work...serving in soup kitchens...helping in women shelters...witnessing...helping neighbors...visiting in the hospital and even sharing there clothes with others, taking Bibles to sheriff's department, and working in our church. And they even tithe.

So I do not understand your comment. What are you saying? I should let them partake in a worship program that says they should compromise all that they have been taught; and go with what the flow is...just because it is the flow? Or are you saying that it is not ok to compromise worship. Or are you saying worship is just on Sundays? Don't teach my kids? What is it exactly you are saying?

Sherrie

 

[onevoice]

I was actually just playing with you in the first post. No insult intended. You just have to know my personality to realize that some of my comments are smart ellic in nature.

The second post was not aimed at you.. just kind of a general question to see what the response would be. I work a great deal with other denominations as an Evangelist and former Pro Southern Gospel Singer. I presently encourage community outreach and fellowship among congregations of different beliefs and work with other ministries to provide tent meetings to entire communities with no focus in denomination. Why? Well.. I believe that there are Methodists, Presbyterians, & Church of God people who need to hear good Preaching, teaching, singing, or just encouragement. There have been times that I have been discouraged as a Christian that these people from other denominations have been there to lift me back up with the word of God. I do agree we should draw the line somewhere. . .I do not work with Catholics because I believe them to be the great whore of revelation after much study of history and the Bible, also, JW's and Mormons are out because they are considered to be a cult. Yes, be cautious, but not to the point that you are rude to other denominations. Baptists sometimes have a stereotype of being hard headed.

 

[Sherrie]

Thank you for your come back.

Sherrie

 

[onevoice]

After reading your post a second time, I would like to comment on the Ministerial Alliance.

From my experience (and this may be different in your town) these alliances are mostly used to determine the overall need of the people in a community in order to bring resources together (financially).

In our alliance, we do not include the Catholic Church, but since our alliance is basically for the provision of money to the needy, I am not sure that it would be a problem. It really depends on how the alliance operates within the county.

In the previous alliance I was a part of we did not include Catholics either, but ours was a little more involved. We had a big Easter get together with all of the churches involved and came together to help with county wide revivals. I would have had a problem with catholics being involved in this alliance for sure.

Just my thoughts. .always open to other ideas from you guys.

 

[VoiceInTheWilderness]

Originally posted by onevoice
Well.. I believe that there are Methodists, Presbyterians, & Church of God people who need to hear good Preaching, teaching, singing, or just encouragement. There have been times that I have been discouraged as a Christian that these people from other denominations have been there to lift me back up with the word of God. I do agree we should draw the line somewhere. .

Do you realize that these groups that you say, just need to hear good preaching, have been founded on belief systems that are very much different from what a traditional Baptist believes?

Do you realize that the doctrines they differ on are serious, such as the doctrine of Salvation?

Here's a question for you: "When deciding where to draw the line, when does a group become guilty of heresy?"

I understand that they may be kind, or considerate, but what is your criteria for drawing lines, whether a group/person was willing to help you in a time of need? No offense, but the Salvation Army can do that.

 

[longshot]

Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:

I think the example of folks refusing to save somebody in grave danger is absurd..

I used the example to illistrate something I found ironic while trying to understand others point of view. My questions did get answered. If I would have taken longer I probably could have come up with a better scenerio. Sorry it didn't measure up to your high standards.

 

[longshot]

Originally posted by A voice crying in the wilderness:

Here's a question for you: "When deciding where to draw the line, when does a group become guilty of heresy?"QB]

Good question. Is it when they deny the death, buriel, ressurection, and divinity of Christ? Is it if they have an expanded hiarchy in the church (more officers besides Elders and Deacons)? Or is it somewhere in between? And when you find that line, is that where you question whether they are truly of the Christian faith? (I dont know).

 

[VoiceInTheWilderness]

Surely we would all have to admit that doctrine is the primary criteria in drawing lines. As John tells us in 2 John 1:9-11

Of course this would apply to the major doctrines only ie... salvation, Christology, The Trinity, the Church, the Ordinances..... just to name some. ( not given in any particular order )
...and not the obscure ones that are not given clearly in scriputre.

Can we truly be one of His and deny certain doctrines?

[ August 31, 2002, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: A voice crying in the wilderness ]