eeeks, Paul Crouch..

[Marcia]

Have you seen what John called the "Gnostic Christians" in 1 John? He called them antichrists and children of the devil.

The false teachers on TBN are preaching far worse than a health and wealth gospel. Word Faith teaches that Jesus had to go to hell to atone for sins, and some teach that Jesus did not become Christ until he was baptized. They also teach that we are little gods. Their doctrines are false and evil.

 

[HeDied4U]

Marcia said...

Word Faith teaches that Jesus had to go to hell to atone for sins...

That's one of the biggest lies they teach. My bible says that Jesus said "It is finished" while on the cross, not in the pit of hell. Is is "bullying" to shed light on the darkness? I think not.

As for their constant pleas for money, obvously they aren't very faithful to their own teachings. If they truly believed what they teach, they wouldn't need to beg for money; they would just claim it, and God would have to supply it.

Anyways, that's my two cents worth.

 

[mickd7]

Marcie: The only problem with going after false teaching and doctrine is that what you might consider false teaching is not neccessarily false teaching to others , as in the Gifts of the Spirit, tongues, healing etc etc. And before you come back with that there are gobs of Scripture to back u up, well just about any doctrine anyone wishes to come out with can be ,found scriptures to back it up.
So the best thing , if u do not understand something , let God be the judge and if it is not for u then dont receive it.
Dont say folks were not poking fun because they are ,such as Jan and her makeup etc. Judge not lest ye be judged is what I say.....

 

[mickd7]

Now what church <especially the Baptist< does not get up and ask for money all the time. There are Scripture that indicate if we give God will give it back to us ten fold. All ministries ask for money. Just tune into Jerry Falwell each Sunday and you will see a good portion of his telecast is asking and talking about Liberty University and his ministry and money. There of course is nothing wrong with that because it takes a huge amount of money to run a organization like that, and TBN, Daystar and the Baptist Network takes a lot more money to operate than his. Falwell gets on my nerves with that but I still like his ministry and I do not claim he is teaching anything wrong.
Now as for TBN they have good shows on , great shows on and terrible shows on but they are not responsible for all content from some of these charletons.
So my advice still stands. Just like anything, Christian programing, movies, tv, internet, etc watch what is good for you and dont turn to what you think is wrong.
Sure there is a lot of false teaching out there. It always has been and always will be will and will get worse in these last days so discuss matters like this but keep away from the gossiping, backbiting, and name calling, if u know what I mean.

 

[rsr]

"Now what church <especially the Baptist< does not get up and ask for money all the time."

A whole different order of magnitude. According to the LA Times " ... tbn, with inadequate board oversight, pays Paul Crouch $403,700 and his wife, Jan, $361,000 — "the highest salaries paid by any of the 12 major religious nonprofits whose finances are tracked by the Chronicle of Philanthropy." TBN nets about $60 million a year and has $583 million in assets.

"Now as for TBN they have good shows on, great shows on and terrible shows on but they are not responsible for all content from some of these charletons."

No, the very worst offenders are cheek by jowl with the Crouches; just watch a Praise-A-Thon and see who shows up.

"It always has been and always will be will and will get worse in these last days so discuss matters like this but keep away from the gossiping, backbiting, and name calling, if u know what I mean."

It's not gossip; it's the truth. And it's not name-calling if the names fit. IMO.

 

[blackbird]

rsr??? Reckon when TBN will host the "Liturgical Robe" wearin' ultri-conservative, fundamental SBC pastor---who is "at large" among his fello peers??? Have camera---will preach!!!

Your Southern Baptist preachin' anti-robe wearin' buddy,
Blackbird

 

[rsr]

I still think you'd look good in a Hinn jacket ...

 

[blackbird]

Yes!!! With his new "Hinn" jacket Blackbird realizes that he can accomplish amazin' feats!!

His first miracle while in his new found suit---is to grow a nice head of hair---just enough so that he can twist it around and around and around and then spray it down with enough goop---that even the exhaust from a roarin' Boeing 747 at full throttle cannot "mess it up!!"

He's so amazed with this first miracle---that he has to go sit down a while!! His second miracle is to make his money supply--inexhaustable---and then cause banks of his choice to remain open 24 hours a day---including holidays and weekends so that he will never have to be out of reach with what he loves best!!

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by mickd7:
Marcie: The only problem with going after false teaching and doctrine is that what you might consider false teaching is not neccessarily false teaching to others , as in the Gifts of the Spirit, tongues, healing etc etc. And before you come back with that there are gobs of Scripture to back u up, well just about any doctrine anyone wishes to come out with can be ,found scriptures to back it up.
So the best thing , if u do not understand something , let God be the judge and if it is not for u then dont receive it.

Sorry, what you say here doesn't apply. We are talking about the essentials of Christianity. The line is clearly drawn in the Bible on that.

Do you consider Mormons Christians? I hope not. Why not? Because they have a different God and Jesus. Are JW's Christians? Do you consider those who deny the Trinity to be Christians? How about New Age Christians who believe Jesus was just an advanced spiritual being? Do you have a problem saying they are not following the Jesus of the Bible?

The Word Faithers deny essentials, such as the atonement. They teach false teachings about Christ literally becoming sin and taking on a sin nature. To be silent in the face of such blasphemy is wrong. We are not to be silent when false teachers are out there deceiving people.

BTW, we are told to judge teachings in the Bible.

 

[av1611jim]

"Now what church <especially the Baptist< does not get up and ask for money all the time."


My home church in Meridian Idaho doesn't. We have a radio ministry and our pastor directly tells listeners not to send money, that the ministry is supported by Treasure Valley Baptist Church. He does this on every program.
This is not to say that he doesn't preach about faithfulness with our giving. But he never does it on radio.
He does it this way to make it absolutely clear that we do not beg for money. God supplies our every need through the voluntary giving of believers. We are never hounded for money. Pastor simply points us to relevant Scripture and then lets God work on our hearts. Period.

What P and J Crouch do is unbiblical. Besides, if "name-it-claim-it" were true then they would have no need to beg for bucks. Me thinks they should read a bit about George Mueller. He never asked anybody but God for help in raising them orphans. God always came through.
In His service;
Jim

 

[LorrieGrace]

Jim,

Our pastor does not talk about money a lot but our church is growing by leaps and bounds. God WILL convict the hearts of the members. It isn't something that should be dragged out like in a "Praise-a-thon" anyway. It cheapens the whole aspect of giving.

I agree with the "name it and claim it". If that were so, why wouldn't ALL Christians be well off. And if they are so well off, the Crouches should not have to be begging them. The "claimers" should be throwing it at the feet of TBN.

 

[av1611jim]

BTW;
I might add;
Any "ministry" which is asking for bucks on their every program, is unbiblical in my view. If they truly have a call from God then they should at least trust God to "provide their every need...".
Again, George Mueller only prayed, never begged. What makes them think God would not be pleased to do it for them also? Different times do not cut it. So forget that. God is not limited to times or cultures.
In His service;
Jim

 

[av1611jim]

Amen, Lorrie.
Our church just broke ground for a new sanctuary. It will seat 1200, with room to spare.
Ain't our God goooooooood?
In His service;
Jim

 

[LorrieGrace]

Originally posted by av1611jim:
Ain't our God goooooooood?

AMEEEENNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[av1611jim]

While on the subject of TBN;
I agree that they preach a false gospel, beg for money, promote heresies, blah blah blah.

What puzzles me though is while we are condemning them for begging for bucks all the time, what do you all think of they who are preaching the Truth, yet still beg for money and sell their books, promote this seminar or that conference, etc. etc. etc?
Isn't this a bit hypocritcal to condemn the one yet approve of the other?
Just wondering what ya'll think?
In HIs service;
Jim

 

[mickd7]

There is nothing wrong in asking those that support a network a show or church for money because as I said before it takes a lot of money to run all of these.
And when we send money by faith to anyone or any group and no matter if they throw the money away the person that by his faith sent the money will be blessed because the Lord said he would bless those they give by faith.
As for the salary of the Crouches, they deserve to be compensated for their work just as any pastor , evangelist, or anyone else that preaches the Gospel.
I wonder what Falwell gets for his work? I am sure he gets a handsome salary also as well as Pat Robertson etc.
I do not care for the Crouches personnally and I do not watch any tele-thon for any network
and what they do with the donations will be judged by God and they will one day answer for it.
There is nothing wrong with discussing subjects like false teachings but keep the attacks on subject and stop mocking and making fun of people, if u know what I mean.
In answer about who are Christians, well I cant say who is or who isnt for the ultimate judge is God
Now if anyone confesses Jesus as Lord then I have to believe they are Christian unless they show otherwise.
Other religions and occults such as the Witness and Mormans I do not consider Christians because they preach a different Christ, but there are Catholics, and members of all mainline churches that are born again and even oneness folks that fit into that catagory and the only one that knows for sure is Jesus, so dont worry about who is or who aint and justwork out your own salvation with fear and trembling and let everyone else do the same.

 

[av1611jim]

mickd7;
So in essence you are saying, live and let live then huh?
Never mind that Jesus had much to say about false professors and hypocrits. Just live and let be, as the Beatles so famously sang about huh?
Sir, I disagree with you.
Romans says you who teach against a thing and yet do the same thing are just as guilty. Therefore, I submit that they who beg for money to "support their ministry" are no better than the charlatans. In fact, they in one sense are worse, for they condemn the one and yet approve of they do the same because they are "in my camp"; they therefore committing hypocrisy.
Just my take on the matter, and I think Scripture supports that view.
In His service;
Jim

 

[rsr]

"What puzzles me though is while we are condemning them for begging for bucks all the time, what do you all think of they who are preaching the Truth, yet still beg for money and sell their books, promote this seminar or that conference, etc. etc. etc?
Isn't this a bit hypocritcal to condemn the one yet approve of the other?"

Not necessarily; it's the premise. The Word-Faith movement practically encourages us to treat God like an ATM. To me, that's a big difference.

 

[Jim Ellis]

AMEN and Thank God I can't get that so called christian TV programs from TBN. All I can get on rabbit ears is PBS, PAX, and NBC.

All cable is, is many channels of garbage!

 

[Marcia]

Now if anyone confesses Jesus as Lord then I have to believe they are Christian unless they show otherwise.
Other religions and occults such as the Witness and Mormans I do not consider Christians because they preach a different Christ, but there are Catholics, and members of all mainline churches that are born again and even oneness folks that fit into that catagory and the only one that knows for sure is Jesus, so dont worry about who is or who aint and justwork out your own salvation with fear and trembling and let everyone else do the same.

Confessing Jesus as Lord means nothing if it's a different Jesus. I think I've posted twice about the Word Faith Jesus but you must have missed it. They say he did NOT atone for sins on the cross but had to go to hell to fight Satan; they say Jesus literally BECAME SIN, and they say we are like god and can create like him. Is this a different enough Jesus for you?

The Oneness Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible either. The Oneness Jesus does not have a Father -- he is also the Father. So when he prayed to His father he was just fooling us. That's the Oneness Jesus. It's a belief that was condemned as a heresy back in the 3rd century.