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Eerdman's Publishes Mormon Book

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Marcia, May 2, 2005.

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  1. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Craig, is the author of this book clearly revealing the plurality of gods in the LDS faith? Does he acknowledge that Mormon prophets and leaders have taught and continue to teach that God was once a man, that Adam was a god, that Christianity was corrupt and the Mormon church was established to "restore" the true faith? Are these core LDS doctrines pointed out clearly as part of the LDS faith?

    Does the author say the LDS faith is not the true faith? Does he admit that Christianity is the true faith (f he does not, he is endorsing Mormonism)? That LDS beliefs are inconsistent with the Bible and with historic Christian doctrine (if he does not, he is endorsing Mormonism)?

    Please show how James White is wrong in his assessement of these points. How is he making "false" statements? Now you are accusing a brother in Christ and you better back it up good.
     
    #81 Marcia, May 17, 2005
  2. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Well-Known Member

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    Marcia wrote,

    I made no direct reference to any particular persons, and I most certainly did not imply that James White was wrong in his “assessements of these points.” However, James White wrote, “But we are talking about a book that is a clear apologetic for Mormonism, which is intended to persuade and convert.” This statement is false. And, by the way, “pursuade” is generally spelled “persuade” by those persons who are literate. And “assessements” is properly spelled “assessments.”

    When those who reply to my posts cannot understand what I have written, I cannot help but wonder who else and what else they cannot understand.

    [​IMG]
     
    #82 Craigbythesea, May 18, 2005
  3. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Well-Known Member

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    Marcia wrote,

    The important issue here is not what some dingbat Mormons have taught in the past, but what is the current official position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Let’s not forget that there has been (and still are) no shortage of dingbat Baptists who taught KJOism, Millennial Exclusion, and Millennial Punishment. I certainly would not want to be judged for my faith on the basis of these dingbat Baptists.

    I am posting here, from the official site of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints their “basic” doctrine of the “Nature of God”:


    [​IMG]
     
    #83 Craigbythesea, May 18, 2005
  4. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Well-Known Member

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    Notice that the official site of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints uses the following terminology:

    Only “our Heavenly Father” is specifically called “God” here, yet the Holy Spirit is specifically called “the third member of the Godhead.” So, exactly what is the official position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regarding the deity of Christ and of the Holy Spirit? I believe that Baptists should know the answer to these questions, and I don’t believe that they should get the answer from a Baptist layman or anyone else who does not know the official position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    [​IMG]
     
    #84 Craigbythesea, May 18, 2005
  5. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    You posted this right after I posted the comments by James White, implying White was making false statements about the book. If he is not making false statements, then you are wrong that the book is not pro-Mormon. Even the promotion on CBD claims it defends the Mormon faith. So if White is not making false statements, who are you referring to?
     
    #85 Marcia, May 18, 2005
  6. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    The use of "dingbat" is juvenile, don't you think? Everything I posted about Mormon beliefs is still taught by the Mormon church, Craig. The offical LDS prophets and leadership have not renounced or recanted or changed those doctrines I mentioned.
     
    #86 Marcia, May 18, 2005
  7. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Craig, do you know anything about Mormon beliefs? When they say Jesus is "begotten" they mean sexually begotten by God having sexual relations with Mary. Also, notice that they say through Jesus, HF has provided a way to "become like Him and return to live with Him." They say "become" like God because they teach that good Mormons become gods and goddesses, and that the God of this planet was once a man. When they say "return" that reveals their belief that all humans on earth are spirit children of God and his wife in heaven (God has a body in Mormonism). These spirit children come down to earth by being born (this is one reason they are pro-life).

    I have even had Mormon missionaries at my door admit to these teachings once I bring them up.
     
    #87 Marcia, May 18, 2005
  8. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    #88 Marcia, May 18, 2005
  9. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    They deny the Trinity. They purposefully use language that sounds Christian. That is why they are so deceptive. They believe that Jesus is another god.

    Craig, I know several former Mormons -- some were Mormon missionaries and were Mormons for 20 yrs. or more. I also have talked to Mormons more times than I can count. What I say above is what they teach but they do not publicize it outside their Church as it is damaging to them. Sometimes, Mormon missionaries do not know all the teachings yet, but some do. As I said, they have admitted this to me.
     
    #89 Marcia, May 18, 2005
  10. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    From an article on Mormon Christology:
     
    #90 Marcia, May 18, 2005
  11. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    From, "Is Mormonism Christian" at
    http://craom.net/areMormonsChristian.htm
     
    #91 Marcia, May 18, 2005
  12. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    More from above article:
     
    #92 Marcia, May 18, 2005
  13. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    From article by Bill McKeever, a friend of mine who has been in ministry to Mormons for over 20 yrs. He reads the Mormon source materials and knows what they believe.
     
    #93 Marcia, May 18, 2005
  14. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    More from above article:
    There are even more quotes from Mormon teachings. These teachings have never been renounced or recanted by the leadership/prophets/Council of Elders of the Mormon church.
     
    #94 Marcia, May 18, 2005
  15. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    More Mormon teachings:
    A handy chart comparing Mormon views of God, Jesus, and man with the biblical views:
    http://www.frontiernet.net/~bcmmin/b2.htm
     
    #95 Marcia, May 18, 2005
  16. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    #96 Marcia, May 18, 2005
  17. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

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    </font>[/QUOTE]The above quoted material is taken from Dr. Cky Carrigan's website at ontruth.com. This information comes from his PhD. dissertation on Mormon Christology. He spent years researching Mormon doctrine using Mormon sources from LDS published materials, interviews with LDS officials, BYU/LDS scholars, etc. His dissertation is on file in the library at BYU even though it points out all the errors of Mormon Christology and their departure(s) from traditional orthodox Christianity.

    Dr. Carrigan is a fine evangelical Christian apologist and evangelist. To put it in our "Baptist" terms... he is a good soul-winner. He knows the false teachings of the enemy and he uses that information to expose their self-defeating claims in the light of the Gospel and then help those who have been deceived by them to come to know the truth of God's Word.

    What you have to understand is that he did not just make up the things that he exposes about Mormon Christology. He spent time studying their teachings and published materials (as Craig is suggesting is the smart thing to do). Then he evaluated his findings in the light of God's Word, which resulted in his ability to expose their false teachings/beliefs about Christ, the Virgin Birth, the Trinity etc. (as all of us, I hope, agree is the right and Biblical thing to do).

    One of the things that I remember most from taking Dr. Carrigan's Christian Faith and World Religions class here at SEBTS is that Mormons use the same terminology as we (Evangelical Christians) use. However, how they define those terms is vastly different and that is what leads to their error and false teachings. When you discuss with a Mormon you must remember to make them define the terms that they use so that you do not assume that they mean the same thing that you mean when you use the same term. Here is one example: Mormons use the term Trinity to refer to what they call the "Triune" nature of God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit. However, they do not teach/believe that the Trinity means that these three are one God in three persons with the exact same nature and essance (as in traditional orthodox Christian teaching). What they mean is that God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one (i.e. a Trinity or Triune) in that they share a common purpose only.

    [ May 19, 2005, 02:32 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]
     
    #97 Bible-boy, May 19, 2005
  18. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Well-Known Member

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    Bible-boy wrote,

    On page 2 of this thread I wrote,

    dianetavegia wrote on page 3,

    I replied to Diane’s post,

    [​IMG]
     
    #98 Craigbythesea, May 19, 2005
  19. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Well-Known Member

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    Marcia wrote,

    No, of course not! How many juveniles are you personally acquainted with who use the word "dingbat" or who are familiar with the meaning and origin of the word? Personally, the only persons who I can recall using the word are university professors!

    Please post documentation to verify this claim.

    Please post documentation to verify this claim.

    [​IMG]
     
    #99 Craigbythesea, May 19, 2005
  20. Karen

    Karen Active Member

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    Craig,
    You state that 1) you have taught comparative religions classes
    2) Mormonism is false
    3) Many Christian attempts to expose Mormonism's falsity is pathetic junk
    4) that we can't rely on many direct statements from Mormons because those were dingbat Mormons from long ago.

    Would you please, with documentation, state what you find objectionable in Mormon theology?
    The thrust of your remarks in this thread, to me, is that whatever Marcia says, you need to show that you have a more sophisticated response than she does.
    And you don't answer direct questions directly.

    Karen
     
    #100 Karen, May 19, 2005
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