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effectual call

Y

Yelsew

Guest
Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
No ... it's the way God builds the church. This has been said so many times. In Calvinism belief is not optional, it is assured. Yet you continue to repeat this stuff like it going to be true one day :( :(
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It is assured for believers, but it is not optional for those who aren't elect. They do not have a chance. </font>[/QUOTE]It is assured for all who believe and that is the point. The non elect won't believe; they do not want to. Why do you keep ignoring that point? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]So then tell us who the elect are so that we can know whether or not we are supposed to believe or not believe. You do know who the elect are don't you?
 
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Frogman

<img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
Jesus also said without him we could do nothing.

Jesus also said that whoever is not with him is against him.

I have not changed anything in scripture, If you don't want to accept the fact that Christ said we could do nothing without him, that is your change, not mine.

Bro. Dallas
 
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Yelsew

Guest
But we can believe in him and thereby receive power to do the rest, including free will repentence of sin; free will confession of sin; free will submission to the will of God, free will testifying about Jesus, free will worship of God, etc.

It is not necessary to be "elected" to be a believer! ELSE Jesus would have told us!
 
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Frogman

<img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
It is not necessary to be "elected" to be a believer! ELSE Jesus would have told us!
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He did this also, he said '...thine are mine, and mine are thine, thine they were; etc. John 17

I know my sheep and they know my voice, they hear me and will follow me. John 10

These are not ambiguous statements.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas
 
E

Eladar

New Member
Romans 2

How is it that the gentiles in verses 14-15 who do God's will because it is written on their hearts are not considered to be saved? It seems to me that Paul is saying just the opposite.
 
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Yelsew

Guest
He did this also, he said '...thine are mine, and mine are thine, thine they were; etc. John 17

I know my sheep and they know my voice, they hear me and will follow me. John 10

These are not ambiguous statements.
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When does a sheep become a sheep? After it learns the shepherds voice? (believes) They hear me (believe) and will follow me (the result of belief)
 
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Yelsew

Guest
Originally posted by Tuor:
Romans 2

How is it that the gentiles in verses 14-15 who do God's will because it is written on their hearts are not considered to be saved? It seems to me that Paul is saying just the opposite.
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Tuor, You are, of course, correct! That is the message.
 
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Pastor Larry

<b>Moderator</b>
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Yelsew:
So then tell us who the elect are so that we can know whether or not we are supposed to believe or not believe. You do know who the elect are don't you?
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How would I know that?? If you have a desire to come to Christ alone for salvation and you put your faith in him, turning from your sins, then that is evidence that you are of the elect. The knowledge of the elect is part of the secret things of God. We are commanded to preach the gospel to everyone believeing that God is workign through that to call out a people for himself from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. I am fine with that. It gives hope to my preaching.
 
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Yelsew

Guest
NO, if I come to believe in Jesus, it is not because I am of the elect, it is because I am of the convicted and persuaded. It was given unto me to believe what the Word of God says, and believe in the Son of God. Who gave that to me? God in the creation made man with the ability to believe, I exercised that ability and became a believer in Jesus, the Christ. He, himself convinced me that he is the Son of God, the Messiah. When then should I not believe in him?
 
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Eladar

New Member
I don't think that really fits with Jesus' statement about Satan trying to deceive the elect, as if it were possible.

If the elect is Israel, then how could we be grafted in to replace those branches (elect) who have been broken off?
 
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Frogman

<img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
A sheep is born a sheep. :D Really, to be technical, it does not have to believe it is a sheep, because it has the nature of the sheep and the spirit of a sheep.

Bro. Dallas
 
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Yelsew

Guest
Samuel Ephesians 1:4-8 gives the perspective.
4 Thus he chose us in Christ before the world was made to be holy and faultless before him in love, 5 marking us out for himself beforehand, to be adopted sons, through Jesus Christ. Such was his purpose and good pleasure, 6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, his free gift to us in the Beloved, 7 in whom, through his blood, we gain our freedom, the forgiveness of our sins. Such is the richness of the grace 8 which he has showered on us in all wisdom and insight.
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When does one become "in Christ"? When one believes "in Christ".
When and how do we get marked? When we believe we receive the Holy Spirit
What does it mean to be "adopted sons through Jesus Christ? We were orphans and waifs before we believed, so we be come adopted by our belief in God's only son.
When did Jesus blood give us our freedom? when He died upon the cross he established the means, and when we believed we received the reality of that freedom.
Grace showered on us in all wisdom and insight? Jesus is the source of Grace.

The fact that sinful man would be redeemed was planned before the foundation of the world indicates that God knows who will accept his Only Son. It does not mean that we were saved before the foundation, nor were we elected to be redeemed withour our free will choice.
 
B

Bible-belted

New Member
The fact that sinful man would be redeemed was planned before the foundation of the world indicates that God knows who will accept his Only Son.
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You obviously don't read the scripture you post.

According to Eph 1:4,5 we were CHOSEN in Christ before the foundation of the world. Chosen implies the wil of the one choosing, not the will of the one being chosen. Chosen is parallel to predestined in ths passage as well. So the predestination is based on God's choice. Verse 11 also makes this same point.
 
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Pastor Larry

<b>Moderator</b>
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Yelsew:
NO, if I come to believe in Jesus, it is not because I am of the elect, it is because I am of the convicted and persuaded. It was given unto me to believe what the Word of God says, and believe in the Son of God. Who gave that to me? God in the creation made man with the ability to believe, I exercised that ability and became a believer in Jesus, the Christ. He, himself convinced me that he is the Son of God, the Messiah. When then should I not believe in him?
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I agree ... but you are convicted and persuaded becuase you are one of teh elect. You say that God gave man the ability to do this in creation but John 6:646-5 clearly says otherwise. The elect are convinced and they believe.
 
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Ray Berrian

New Member
Brother Dallas,

You said, 'A sheep is born a sheep.' Cute and cuddly!

Jesus used the typology of sheep and goats. Goats are unbelievers. This does not mean that once a sinner always a sinner. {once a goat always a goat}

Jesus merely meant that God's people are counted as sheep; the lost are looked at as being in the other flock being goats.
 
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