Elaborate churches

Wow...I am absolutely STUNNED by this discussion.

"Waste of God's money?" "Monstrosity"? "Abomination"?

Have any of you actually ever ATTENDED a service at Prestonwood? I have. The Bible is preached and taught and a clear presentation of the gospel is presented in each and every worship service.

Have any of you looked anywhere on their website other than the virtual tour? Have you looked at their missions emphasis? Have you noticed the number of missionaries they support as well as other mission ministries in which they participate? Do you know how many people have come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ from what is presented in their various ministries?

I attend a very large church in the area, although not as large as Prestonwood. I guess you would consider my church a "monstrosity" and an "abomination" also, even though you most likely have never attended a worship service there. That is sad because we love and worship the Lord, we generously support missions, and people are coming to know Christ.

I don't know anything about Ruckman, but from what I can tell on the Ruckman thread, a lot of the same people on this thread who are condemning a church for being too large, are condemning his church for being too small. Then what, in your opinion, is the appropriate size for a church?

Thank you, Pete.

 

Long time no see, CJ!!

Thanks for your response and I can sort of understand your point. However, I don't see any indication in Scriptures that the local church is to be a "Christian community" as portrayed here. Every indication in Scripture is that God's people work out of humble settings, God using the weak things of the world to confound thse things that are mighty.

I am grateful for all that these churches do,but just can't imagine the church in the NT having three kids areas and a snack bar.

 

I know many folks that attend PrestonWorld - that church actually survived a pastor that had an affair and left the church - and has continued to grow under the current leadership.

I dont think that I could be comfortable attending a mega church - but I think that there is a place for them, and they have figured it out up there pretty well. I understand that thier Christian school is well regarded academically, and they have a good sports program as well. They are very active in the community, send out many missionaries, and provide places of service for many seminary students giving them hands on experience.

Many are saved and discipled there - for that I will give them cudos.

 

Acts 2:42-47: "They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved."

Seems like a "Christian community" to me. Only difference is we have advanced about 2000 years or so, and the "Christian community" looks a little different. I believe as long as the church today is following the Acts 2 model, God can (and will) use that church and its ministries for His glory no matter what the size or the architecture.

Does that mean every large church is a model of Acts 2? Of course not. Some are, and some are not. But I totally disagree with judging a church strictly by its size and amenities without knowing anything about its ministries.

CJ

 

How long did that last? Persecution soon followed, and that has been the norm ever since.

 

Is the building large and extravagant because many folks go there? Or are people going there because it is large and extravagant? I wonder just how many people choose a church because "it is so beautiful".

 

I'm sorry, Roger...I'm not sure I understand your point?

Possibly just as many as choose a church because the presence of the Lord is there?

 

Nobody has made any comments about some of the churches in Korea. They make ours look like ant hills compared to a mountain.

It is impossible for a church to get large with selfish people.

The church we attend has just finished a new building and had their first worhsip service in it last week. MIt is amazing how the gossip and rumors have spread through the Christians. I don't know of one non-believer in the community who has complained but it is the non-evnaglical nominal Christians who have spread goosip about things that are obviously not true.

Typically the size of a church will be directly related to the size of high schools and other meeting places. People in large cities are not uncomfortable with large events. In fact they tend to see it as a positive. Whereas people from small town are intimidated by that.

The majority of small churches change pastors regularly, he is paid near poverty and the majority of the giving goes to the pastor's salary.

I'd rather be in a palace that honors God than a shack that worships idols.

 

I don't want to comment about whether or not amenities in a church are right or proper, but I will say this: I believe God uses all of His faithful churches to advance the gospel. Just as there is a place for the small church in God's kingdom, there is equally room for the large church that follows after Him.

Now let's address some real issues...how many pastors/church leaders make condemning statements against large churches simply because of envy?

More than are willing to admit, to be sure.

My church is classified as "small," but I attend conferences at some larger churches, and enjoy them very much - and I'm grateful for their hospitality. I can also see within them the same potential (although on a larger scale) to reach people with the gospel of Christ. I would like to have the resources they have, but I do not think them evil for having more than we do.

If you really think excessive ornamentation is wrong, then show up to church next Sunday in blue jeans and a tee-shirt. Quit wasting God's money on suits and ties and good shoes! Unless, that is, you believe we should give our best to God.

 

You are misled if you think that. If you look at when churches grew the most across the US it was when they had much less. It was about the time of the depression and shortly afterward.

The largest mission organization in the US is not a part of any denomination.

 

I'm sorry, Roger...I'm not sure I understand your point?

</font>[/QUOTE]Only that the Acts 2 example was at the birth of the church. The norm for Christians since then has been struggle and persecution, not prosperity and comfort.

 

A church building is neither the tabernacle nor the temple.

 

Since my reference in another forum was probably the reason for this topic, please allow me to clarify myself.

In my original posting (in answer to someone asking what might be some interesting things to see/do in and around the Dallas - Ft. Worth, TX, area), I merely stated that visiting Prestonwood Baptist Church might be a "unique" experience.

Since I only visited it one time on a Sunday evening about five years ago, I cannot (nor will I) presume to speak for that church.

There were really only two reasons why I visited that church:

1) It wasn't too far from where I was staying while I was attending a vendor's school in Plano.

2) Bailey Smith, one of the pioneers in the movement to bring the SBC back to its more conservative roots, was speaking that evening.

I am not a member of an SBC church, but I did want to hear what Bailey Smith had to say.

That being said, I will only add this one point: How many folks who have criticized a particular church for some practice actually ever attended at least one service at that church?

While I will grant you that perhaps you cannot learn everything there possibly is to know about a particular church in one visit, at least I can in all honesty say that I did visit that church.

Again, I am neither condoning nor condemning Prestonwood Baptist Church for anything that they practice.

If others choose to do either, that is their right. All I merely stated was that it would be a "unique" experience to visit their services.

That was what my visit to their service was--"unique."

 

What about those who spend a lotmoney on suits and ties, nice clothes they can't wear everyday just to wear to church? If you don't work in a suit and tie isn't it a waste to purchse them to show off at church? What about women wearing nice dresses they don't wear everyday at home, like mom's at home wearing something they would not chase a 2 year old in clean the floors in.
Samething

 

This place seems more like a $1000 suit and $500 dress, imho.

 

Of course I'm not implying that the church referred to is the whore, just showing what God thinks of man's showieness.

Rev17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Rev18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

As far as churches being "boring" is concerned:

Acts20:7 ¶ And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.
9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.

I believe most people fall asleep because they don't have an ear for the truth.

 

Maybe Paul didn't have his powerpoint hooked up right

 

THAT IS FUNNY!!!!

 

ktn---Brother Bailey is one of my SBC heroes---that's been 5 years ago but I'm gonna bet you still remember what he preached.

Here's a few of his quotes I repeat over and over in my mind

"What's wrong with many churches across America is the six foot icicles standin' behind the pulpits every Sunday!"

"Don't have the backbone of a Jelly Fish--stand up on the word of God!"

"Lillied livered preacheretts preaching sermonettes to a bunch of Christianettes!!"

I love Brother Bailey---I really do!!

Blackbird