Elaborate churches

Thank you, Pete. </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you!

A lot of this whining and complaining, especially from pastors, sounds a lot like jealousy.

 

I think it is wrong to accuse those who disagree with a church programme philosophy of jealousy.

Is it so impossible to imagine that others might have a legitimate opinion and point of view?

 

I think it is wrong to accuse a church you have not knowledge of except that they have nice facilities.

And yes, it does sound like jealousy.

 

Well, my brother - feel free to make your judgement call.

My problem is not with this church or any other.

While it may be inconceivable I have some basic problems with the entire mega-church mentality.

 

I don't think its the idea of being jealous because of some big building(we've seen what an Airbus 330 can do to a building ) and the prestige of pastoring one of the mega churches.

Its a known fact that Dr. Rogers is retiring---and here is a jest of what I heard him say personally while I was attending the Olford Preaching Institute in Memphis this past September.

He is retiring in order to spend time with his wife, children, and grandchildren---he is literally stepping down from pastoring one of the top two SBC mega churches----to spend time with family---sounds like the prestige is located in his family---and that he is proving that he loves his wife more than a bunch of carpet, steel, and sheetrock thats gonna one day go up in the flames of earthly judgment.

I don't envy Dr. Rogers pastoral position nor his facilities---I envy his retirement to which I am counting down "25 years and closing!!" Because I guarantee you---if I'm "still kickin'" 25 years from now---I am gonna play host to the biggest retirement "Blow Out" parties the world has ever known!!

Brother David

[ February 13, 2005, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

I too am stunned by this discussion. Tag it with whatever label you wish, but I think much of it boils down to jealousy. Face it, most of us pastors do not have the skills to build and pastor a "mega church." I know...God can take a "back-woods, corn-fed, illiterate preacher" and use him to build a mega church. Yes, He can. But I am not sure that He has. God gifts certain men with the ability to develop their skills to the point that He can use them to reach tens of thousands of people. In such cases, you must have a place to put them. I say praise God for Prestonwood and other Bible-believing, evangelistic, disciple-making churches like her.

 

When I got to Hawaii and first visited my church, I am ashamed to say that I was not happy with its appearance. I wanted the pretty building, stain glass windows, etc... And we pay $10K a month rent for this church, but whats inside is most important and the Word of God is being preached and taught and lives are changing, Amen. But take a peek at our building here:

http://www.obchurch.org

Aloha.

 

C4K:

You are so right!! We at our prayer group said a special prayer for Michael Prince this morning, and our group's leader met for a short time with Michael's pastor this past Friday to express our heart-felt concern for him and his family.

Ray & Anita & family, may the Holy Spirit continue to grant to you and Michael an extra special measure of His comforting presence.

Father, again we lay before You this precious family. You love them more than all of us at Baptist Board combined. Please continue to give them all the grace and strength that they will ever need during this time.

In Jesus Name,

Amen.

 

A F Guy----don't be ashamed---it looks good---and besides----the word from the Word preaches just as well from under a scrub tree in the remote plains of Kenya as it does in the buildings named--

Take a look at my SBC church

www.ourchurch.com/member/s/stronghope

We are on the threshold of paying off over $356,000 loan this coming March---15 years sooner than I really expected--we took out this loan 2 years ago for the building you see in the site.

Then follow the links to the youth page --- we have a bunch of um pictured---the good majority of who I have been priviledged to baptise and our Youth Minister is doing a wonderful job of discipling them and teaching them to walk in pureness and holiness of body, soul, and spirit!!

 

av1611jim, I get this comment a lot from one of my severest critics in church.

However, I find agreement with you concerning the outragous extravagence...but the reason I bring up envy is that I have suffered from it in times past concerning bible-believing churches that are blessed with great resources.

 

Perhaps the answer is in the following Scripture:

Luke 12:16-21
16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

 

Amen!

 

David,

Thank you for sharing this with us. May your church be an inspiration to others!

 

A F Guy---one more thing---this quote

"When I got to Hawaii"---lands sake, son! If I were in Hawaii----show me the way to Gilligan's Island and the SS Minnow---and I'll preach from that yacht with a big ole hole in the side of it and an engine that won't run---yet they lived so close to Hawaii they could catch an AM station on the radio without static---and batteries never drained!!!!

 

Personally, I don't care how fine the building is. Or how much it cost. Or how many it can seat. The main thing is that Christ is preached, that souls are saved, that the kingdom is advanced. Anything outside of that means diddly.

Do they have a nice church? Yes, they do. Praise God that they have had the means to build it in God's name, but don't tear them down because of it. If anyone doesn't approve, write the church and tell them...don't belly-ache about it on here.

I have seen many fine churches. Maybe not as fine as this one, but fine, nonetheless. And I have heard several small-minded, jeolous people rail against them. In the church that I just left, the pastor would rant against a huge local church in the area ( http://www.westwoodbapt.org/ ). Just because this church is blessed with a very large congregation (by local standards), and is building a multi-million dollar campus...petty, very petty.

Each and every church is different. Not every church belongs in a brick or white clapboard, 30' x 60' building with an iron bell on the porch. Nor does every church belong in a store-front. Or someone's living room. Just like people, each one is different. So...let God be the judge of what is or is not appropriate.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Soulman,

I am not sure if He would condone it or not, but I do know that He would be pleased at souls being saved and christians growing. However, I do know that He would not nor does condone a church that puts tradition above the Word of God, opinion above conviction, and fear above faith. I have seen many little rural churches stay little rural churches because they have so violated the principles of the Blessed Book of God. Dr. Graham and Prestonwood are doing what they feel led of God to do, just as Billy Sunday did, Moody did, Spurgeon did, and the Pastor and people of Podunk Holler Baptist Church are doing. Let's rejoice that souls are being saved and lives are being changed. We are on the same team here. We have the same enemy- it is not each other- it is the devil.

 

av1611jim wrote,

Jim, I find it difficult to understand how having a restaurant incorporated into a church facility is a waste of money when that restaurant brings in an income of $370,000 a year. I also find it difficult to understand how having a restaurant incorporated into a church facility is a waste of money when that allows the members to share meals together without driving hundreds of cars across down and consuming thousands of dollars of expensive gasoline.

No, I do not find any explicit mention in the New Testament of having a restaurant incorporated into a church facility, but neither do I find any explicit mention in the New Testament of having restrooms incorporated into a church facility. Perhaps the men at your church don’t mind using the bushes, but I strongly suspect that the women in your church would not complain if your pastor was so unscriptural as to rent a porta-potty and set it up in your churches unscriptural parking lot.

 

One wonders: If Jesus Christ were to visit the Prestonwood Facility would He do as He did to those who defiled the temple? I believe so.

John 2:13-17
13 And the Jews’ passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;
16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise.
17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

I doubt that many souls are saved by providing a place where people can pig out and then a gym to work it off. The money spent on all the ancilliary facilities, gym, restaurant, etc., etc., etc., could have better been spent providing such things as Assisted Living Facilities for the infirm.

 

You either misunderstood or I did not communicate very clearly.

If you take a look at where the church is growing the fastest, it is not in the richest nations in the world. In fact it is in some of the poorest.