"Elders" in Baptist churches?

[ChurchofChristguy]

...or are they just called something else? I have always been curious of this, as Paul and Peter both go into pretty thorough detail of this official position in a church. I know some churches call them bishops, shepherds, pastors, and overseers. I was just curious about the Baptist way on this particular issue.

 

[Reformed]

...or are they just called something else? I have always been curious of this, as Paul and Peter both go into pretty thorough detail of this official position in a church. I know some churches call them bishops, shepherds, pastors, and overseers. I was just curious about the Baptist way on this particular issue.

The offices of the local church are pastor/elder (same office) and deacon, of these all local churches should be constructed.

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[Jerome]

...or are they just called something else? I have always been curious of this, as Paul and Peter both go into pretty thorough detail of this official position in a church. I know some churches call them bishops, shepherds, pastors, and overseers. I was just curious about the Baptist way on this particular issue.

Because of how false churches have so twisted the English meaning of episcopacy/bishop and presbytery/elder, Baptists for the most part now use pastor and deacon as terms for the two biblical offices. The precise Bible words are bishop and deacon, often collectively referred to as just elders.

A survey of this Baptist understanding:

SBTS's Greg Wills, "The Church: Baptists and Their Churches in the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries":

"the pastor and deacons jointly constituted the eldership. South Carolina’s Tyger River Baptist Association, for example, judged in 1835 that "the eldership of the church" consisted of "the ministers and deacons."



Shaftsbury Baptist Association, 1804 Circular Letter:

"These are both called Elders, I Timothy 5:17. . . .By these Elders, we understand Bishops and Deacons; and we have not learned from the scriptures, but that these two are the only officers to be ordained in the Christian Church."



American Baptist Magazine, 1829:

"The term elder was, probably, a general term equivalent to our word officer; and thus it could be applied to a pastor, or to a deacon ; and the elders of a church included the pastor or pastors and the deacons."



In Charles Spurgeon's "The Sword and Trowel", 1866:

"the term elder is applied both to bishops and deacons"



Spurgeon's predecessors concurred:

William Rider, Laying on of Hands Asserted, 1656:

"in the word Elders is comprehended all officers in the Church, with the Ministerial work also, . . . and so Elders is distinguished into several offices in the Church, as Bishops and Deacons . . . . Philip. 1.1 vers. where the Apostle writeth to the Saints, with the Bishops and Deacons: so Paul to Timothy writes of the qualifications of the Bishops and Deacons ; not Elders and Deacons ; you shall never in all the Scripture find Elders and Deacons expressed."



Benjamin Keach, Gospel Mysteries Unveil'd [1701]:

"Moreover, the Deacons are to be helps in Government. Some think Paul calls the Deacons Elders, when he speaks of Elders that rule well [I Tim. 5:17] (as our Annotators observe)"

 

[Jerome]

More from the passage from Spurgeon's Sword & Trowel:

"the term elder is applied both to bishops and deacons....distinct officers were recognized by the Church, but they were lovingly blended together. There was no contention about a name as expressive of an authority, which it would have been sacrilege for others to invade."

Also:

Charles Spurgeon, "Work for Jesus":

"I remember that when Andrew Fuller had a very severe lecture from some Scotch Baptist brethren about the discipline of the church, [the Scotch Baptists were a short-lived offshoot: "A plurality of elders or pastors in every church, is a distinguishing feature in their order. . . .they consider a church incomplete without a plurality."] he made the reply, "You say that your discipline is so much better than ours. Very well, but discipline is meant to make good soldiers. Now, my soldiers fight better than yours, and I think therefore that you ought not to say much about my discipline." So the real thing is not to be for ever calculating about modes of church government, and methods of management and plans to be adopted and rules to be laid down, which it shall be accounted a serious breach to violate. All well in their place, for order is good in its way. But come, now, let us go to work. Let us have something done."

 

[Salty]

The offices of the local church are pastor/elder (same office) and deacon, of these all local churches should be constructed. ...

Yet many Baptist churches are going to a multiple elder polity.

and IMHO - I do not see the Deacons as officers of the church - their duty is to take care of the physical needs of the congregation - so the pastor (Elder) may concrate on the spiritual needs of the church.

 

[Reformed]

Yet many Baptist churches are going to a multiple elder polity.

and IMHO - I do not see the Deacons as officers of the church - their duty is to take care of the physical needs of the congregation - so the pastor (Elder) may concrate on the spiritual needs of the church.

Whether you consider them officers or not, each church is commanded to have both positions. They are essential for the proper administration of a local body.

 

[Reynolds]

Yet many Baptist churches are going to a multiple elder polity.

and IMHO - I do not see the Deacons as officers of the church - their duty is to take care of the physical needs of the congregation - so the pastor (Elder) may concrate on the spiritual needs of the church.

Unless you have a different designated board of directors, the IRS sees them as officers.

 

[Revmitchell]

Because of how false churches have so twisted the English meaning of episcopacy/bishop and presbytery/elder, Baptists for the most part now use pastor and deacon as terms for the two biblical offices. The precise Bible words are bishop and deacon, often collectively referred to as just elders.

A survey of this Baptist understanding:

SBTS's Greg Wills, "The Church: Baptists and Their Churches in the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries":

"the pastor and deacons jointly constituted the eldership. South Carolina’s Tyger River Baptist Association, for example, judged in 1835 that "the eldership of the church" consisted of "the ministers and deacons."



Shaftsbury Baptist Association, 1804 Circular Letter:

"These are both called Elders, I Timothy 5:17. . . .By these Elders, we understand Bishops and Deacons; and we have not learned from the scriptures, but that these two are the only officers to be ordained in the Christian Church."



American Baptist Magazine, 1829:

"The term elder was, probably, a general term equivalent to our word officer; and thus it could be applied to a pastor, or to a deacon ; and the elders of a church included the pastor or pastors and the deacons."



In Charles Spurgeon's "The Sword and Trowel", 1866:

"the term elder is applied both to bishops and deacons"



Spurgeon's predecessors concurred:

William Rider, Laying on of Hands Asserted, 1656:

"in the word Elders is comprehended all officers in the Church, with the Ministerial work also, . . . and so Elders is distinguished into several offices in the Church, as Bishops and Deacons . . . . Philip. 1.1 vers. where the Apostle writeth to the Saints, with the Bishops and Deacons: so Paul to Timothy writes of the qualifications of the Bishops and Deacons ; not Elders and Deacons ; you shall never in all the Scripture find Elders and Deacons expressed."



Benjamin Keach, Gospel Mysteries Unveil'd [1701]:

"Moreover, the Deacons are to be helps in Government. Some think Paul calls the Deacons Elders, when he speaks of Elders that rule well [I Tim. 5:17] (as our Annotators observe)"

Hey lookie there! They got doctrine wrong very easily back in the 1800's also!

 

[Jerome]

and IMHO - I do not see the Deacons as officers of the church

Curious, as it's written in stone:

Southern Baptist Convention > 2000 Baptist Faith and Message > Article VI The Church

Each church operates under the Lordship of Christ through democratic processes. In such a congregation each member is responsible and accountable to Christ as Lord. Its scriptural officers are pastors and deacons.

...and you've previously assured us:

That would be my stand -(affriming the 2000 BFM)[/QUOTE

 

[Salty]

Curious, as it's written in stone:

Southern Baptist Convention > 2000 Baptist Faith and Message > Article VI The Church



...and you've previously assured us:

doesn't mean I agree with every sentence - just the vast majority.

 

[Salty]

Unless you have a different designated board of directors, the IRS sees them as officers.

Under NY State religious law - only trustees are mentioned.
Do you have a link about the IRS and Baptist deacons ( I looked - did not see anything)

 

[Salty]

Whether you consider them officers or not, each church is commanded to have both positions. They are essential for the proper administration of a local body.

This can bring up a new discussion - so I started a new thread:

 

[Reynolds]

Under NY State religious law - only trustees are mentioned.
Do you have a link about the IRS and Baptist deacons ( I looked - did not see anything)

When I was writing the bylaws for our church several years ago, the attorney told me when they were sent to IRS for 501c3 that a board of directors had to be listed or by defacto they considered the deacons the board of directors. He said they strongly preferred it be stayed in bylaws. We formally named the deacon board as board of directors, and it made the attorney happy.

 

[Salty]

Reynolds - thanks for the info.

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

In small churches of Christ, it is common that there are no elders, only deacons. But that is usually more of a function of a control freak pastor/minister/preacher than anything else.

But most CofCs have elders. They are considered more "overseers" or "shepherds" of the church, while deacons are more "doers" - looking after finances, plumbing, missions, etc. In some CofCs, the elders are more considered spiritual overseers where the practical goings on of the church default to the ministers and deacons. In other CofCs, the elders take on more of a "board of trustees" role.

 

[Jerome]

That would be my stand -(affriming the 2000 BFM)

doesn't mean I agree with every sentence - just the vast majority.

How convenient for you!

 

[Salty]

How convenient for you!

Not "convenient" - remember - even though we are affiliated with the SBC,
we are an independent Baptist church - .....
and that issue is not a test of fellowship.

 

[Jerome]

we are an independent Baptist church

Independent of what?

 

[Salty]

Independent of what?

the same thing that your local church is independent of!
(and by the way - we are also fundamental as well!)

 

[Jerome]

we are an independent Baptist church

Independent of what?

the same thing that your local church is independent of!
(and by the way - we are also fundamental as well!)

Good for you! We're independent of Conventions , whether Northern, Southern, or state.