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Elders

Jerome

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Leaders were to lead, and to be respected and obeyed (Heb. 13:7, 17).
Whether man or woman, hallelujah. As preached at the Metropolitan Tabernacle in 1892:

[Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.]

"This text, whatever may be its other value, is mainly of importance, because it indicates three tests of a genuine, God-sent leader. In the first place he speaks the word of God, in the second place his faith is fixed on a personal Saviour; and, in the third place, his life conforms to the Word of God and to the faith in Christ, and ends in a glorious immortality. Wherever we find those three indications meeting in any man or woman, we may recognize the heaven-sent leader, and it is at our peril if we do not follow such leadership."

Sermon Index [pdf, p. 117]
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I am sorry to confess I have not read all the posts of Family Man, but I did read the opening post.

First my definition of Elder or Elders, those within a local church community who are senior in Spiritual Maturity. A person who was born anew age 60 is not an Elder because of his or her earthly age. Nor does time from professed conversion actually govern Eldership. We know Paul did not see new converts, less than three earthly years since conversion, as someone to be given leadership roles.

But as a friend of mine once said, there is a difference between 10 years experience, and 1 years experience 10 times over. I did not grow very much in spiritual maturity from the time I was 15 (age at conversion) and about 40 (when I started to engage in evangelism with my local church.)

I was about 50 which I was recommended to the membership for my first leadership role by the governing board at our local church. I served in leadership roles from the mid 1980's to the mid 1990, rotating off the Elder board in 1996, the year of my first heart attack.
 

Family man

New Member
the obvious flow is most christian house churches had an "elder" wether it was a father mother uncle aunt or just a communion of neighbors nevertheless an elder by definition was an older person and if they appointed an elder they appointed an older person to a work, the appointment did make that older person an older person it made them an appointed older person, do you see the difference and the slight of hand to effectively remove the job of the elder when the scripture tells the elder as apposed to a bishop or deacon to take a responsibility? (elders feed the flock, as apposed to deacons (original word for ministers and teachers) ?
 
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Family man

New Member
Whether man or woman, hallelujah. As preached at the Metropolitan Tabernacle in 1892:

[Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.]

"This text, whatever may be its other value, is mainly of importance, because it indicates three tests of a genuine, God-sent leader. In the first place he speaks the word of God, in the second place his faith is fixed on a personal Saviour; and, in the third place, his life conforms to the Word of God and to the faith in Christ, and ends in a glorious immortality. Wherever we find those three indications meeting in any man or woman, we may recognize the heaven-sent leader, and it is at our peril if we do not follow such leadership."

Sermon Index [pdf, p. 117]
Jerome how can a leader of a church have rule over it? Christ said in my kingdom it shall not me so? But a house as apposed to a church has a senior elder and a qualification to be an overseer or bishop is that the elder in consideration to be appointed as a bishop is rule his house well. Hebrews tells those under that elders authority (be it by blood or consent or contract) to obey them. A minister on the other hand or (appointed elder) is there in that appointed office by consent, his title is servant, and he also is under the authority of the elders. How can it be otherwise? There is no rule over the church except based on the principle the elders oversee their own domain, and if they do a great job they can oversee the church in scripture, how could it be otherwise and reconcile those two sets of verses?
 

Family man

New Member
CHAPTER SEVEN





What Kind of Kingdom Should We Expect?


We are left with a choice: Do we embrace a clerocracy that elevates a few, or the elder-as-head view that honors the whole family as the family of God? This choice introduces a question that is too often ignored.





If the Old Testament closes with the restoration of fathers as the final covenant necessity, and the New Testament opens with the restoration of fathers as the preparatory work for Messiah, what sort of governing structure should we expect the Kingdom to emphasize?





Should we expect the Kingdom of God to shift away from household life and into the hands of a detached, professional clerisy?





Should we expect the central burden of the new covenant to become the manufacture of religious officials whose authority is granted by institutional recognition rather than by proven covenant fruit in the home?





Such an expectation sits awkwardly against the canonical storyline. The narrative momentum points in another direction entirely. It points toward:





Healed households





Restored honor





Reconciled generations





Fathers once again carrying covenant weight





In other words, the narrative momentum points toward patriarchal recovery.





This does not mean the New Testament abolishes organized stewardship. It does mean that any stewardship introduced by the apostles must be read within this larger restoration project. Offices, tasks, and appointments cannot be interpreted as if they float free from the covenant emphasis that frames the transition between the Testaments.





The church is not birthed in a vacuum. It is birthed in the shadow of Malachi’s warning.





Reading Elderhood Under the Shadow of Malachi


Once this canonical frame is seen, the question of elderhood takes on a different complexion.





If Scripture’s great unresolved concern is the restoration of fathers, then it becomes difficult to imagine that the apostolic use of “elders” intends a narrow, professional species detached from ordinary household life. The very word elder naturally harmonizes with the Malachi trajectory: older persons usually men, fathers, mature household heads, and those bearing generational gravity.





This does not feel imported; it feels expected.





Indeed, when Paul later requires that an overseer manage his own house well, he is not inventing a new, arbitrary bureaucratic rule. He is building directly upon this covenant logic: public stewardship must arise from restored domestic stewardship.





A man unable to hold the hearts of his own children cannot credibly stand as a guardian within the household of God.





The issue is not academic qualification first.





The issue is fatherhood proven.





This is Malachi echoing inside apostolic instruction.





Clergy or Patriarchs?


At this point, the contrast becomes stark:





The Clerical Reading The Familial Reading


Assumes Christ came to found a more efficient religious administration—a smoother hierarchy, a better clerical chain, an executive board. Sees Christ entering the unresolved fatherhood crisis and rebuilding covenant life from the household outward.


Produces officers. Produces strong families.


Centralizes authority in a title. Roots authority in lived generational faithfulness.


Can survive with weak homes, so long as institutional procedures remain intact. Cannot survive unless fathers stand upright.


Which of these sounds more like the Bible’s own cliffhanger?





The answer presses upon the reader almost before any technical argument begins. The last verse of the Old Testament does not sound like a prelude to clericalism. It sounds like a summons to restored fatherhood.





The Curse and the Church


This raises an uncomfortable but necessary possibility: perhaps much of the church’s chronic weakness is tied to solving the wrong problem.





If the covenant crisis was father-child rupture, but the church answered chiefly with professionalized clergy, then we may have organized ourselves around management while leaving the foundational wound untreated.





We built pulpits.





We built seminaries.





We built boards.





We built constitutions.





But did we rebuild fathers?





Did we restore household honor as the nursery of spiritual authority? Did we teach the saints to recognize that the first proving ground of public oversight is not the classroom, but the family table?





Until that question is answered, the warning of Malachi still hangs over every discussion of church order like an unsheathed sword. For the canon itself has already told us where the fracture lies:





Restore the fathers. Turn the children. Or inherit the curse.
 
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