Elected or Chosen?

[12strings]

This has come up several times recently, but I have not seen it proven.

(MB)God's elect and just plain elect have different meanings. God's elect in Romans 8:33 is speaking about the Jews...You were never elected 12 strings. Not ever, no way. Gentiles are chosen Jews are elected.

More arguments from both sides:

Originally Posted by MB
While I agree that Abraham was chosen. It still isn't the same as the word "elect" In scripture the only time the word elect is used is to refer to the Jews. Election is the choosing between Jacob and Esau. and this was not for one single person but him and the whole of all of his descendants. God's choosing of Abraham was for a covenant with Abraham because of his obedience. This is why I differ on the use of the word "elect",because scripture uses it differently. Eph 1:4 uses the word chosen. If we as gentiles were elect why the word chosen. I admit they have a similar definition yet Paul in my opinion was showing a difference.
MB

(MB)
G1588 - eklektos - From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.

G1586 - eklegomai - Middle voice from G1537 and G3004 (in its primary sense); to select: - make choice, choose (out), chosen.

Do you see a difference? I do
MB

Not really, I don't see the difference, which is why I'm starting this thread.

(GREEKTM) Yes the words are different. One is the noun form and the other the verbal form. But they have the same root. They are morphological cognates. They mean the same thing but have different grammatical functions in a sentence. In other words, they both mean "elect" or "choose/chosen".

(GREEKTM) God uses "elect" for angels (1 Tim. 5:21). And 2 Tim 2:10 is not specific to ethnicity.

Can anyone prove conclusively that...
a. "Elect" and "chosen" have different meanings.
b. "God's Elect" and "just plain Elect" have different meanings.
b. Only Jews are ever called "elect" in scriptures?

 

[Herald]

Tick, Tock. Tick, Tock.

 

[12strings]

Tick, Tock. Tick, Tock.

Now is a "Tick" fundamentally different than a "Tock," or is it two words to signify the same thing?

 

[MB]

This has come up several times recently, but I have not seen it proven.



More arguments from both sides:





Not really, I don't see the difference, which is why I'm starting this thread.





Can anyone prove conclusively that...
a. "Elect" and "chosen" have different meanings.
b. "God's Elect" and "just plain Elect" have different meanings.
b. Only Jews are ever called "elect" in scriptures?

All you have to do to prove me wrong is find one Gentile in scripture that is called elect. Better yet prove with scripture that you are elect.
MB

 

[Herald]

Now is a "Tick" fundamentally different than a "Tock," or is it two words to signify the same thing?

LOL I am just waiting for all the accusations, misdirection, and butchering of the text to begin in earnest.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

LOL I am just waiting for all the accusations, misdirection, and butchering of the text to begin in earnest.

LOL.... Oh you "Calvinists" you, Bunch of inconsistent, dishonest, man made by the cooperation of Augustine & Calvin (that murdering wretch) ..... Heretics & Cripto roman catholics. Essentially devil spons & scum of the earth.

Does that sound like our sensitive loving brethren?!? :laugh:

 

[MB]

LOL.... Oh you "Calvinists" you, Bunch of inconsistent, dishonest, man made by the cooperation of Augustine & Calvin (that murdering wretch) ..... Heretics & Cripto roman catholics. Essentially devil spons & scum of the earth.

Does that sound like our sensitive loving brethren?!? :laugh:

You are the one all of this came from aren't you
MB

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You are the one all of this came from aren't you
MB

Indeed, you should be proud of yourself Mary Beth....you and your colleagues. The results of which will be an extraordinary achievement....IE, the driving out of BB every Calvinist in here. :laugh:

Well done.

 

[jbh28]

(MB)God's elect and just plain elect have different meanings. God's elect in Romans 8:33 is speaking about the Jews...You were never elected 12 strings. Not ever, no way. Gentiles are chosen Jews are elected.

The "elect" would be both Jews and Gentiles. Romans 8 is about those in Christ Jesus, not just about Jews.

I'm curious how MB limits "elect" to Jews in this passage.

 

[Monster]

Indeed, you should be proud of yourself Mary Beth....you and your colleagues. The results of which will be an extraordinary achievement....IE, the driving out of BB every Calvinist in here. :laugh:

Well done.

Don't be disingenuous now. No one can drive them out, they were elected/appointed/determined/chosen/predestined/foreknown to go. So, when they do go, it's God's will be done, from the foundation of the world, no less. There was no choice, no prodding, no resisting and no human influence at all.

:tongue3:

 

[psalms109:31]

Jews are the elect of God we are included with them and are elected by being in Christ when we heard the Gospel of our salvation Having believed. We are treated just as a native born. Jews have been cut out not because they were not chosen but for unbelief and not able to enter,and they can be easily be grafted back in not included like us gentiles if they do not continue in their unbelief. They have a veil that covers their heart that can only be removed if they turn to Christ just they way they are blind and He will open their eyes if they eat His flesh and drink His blood. This is the words He spoke and the life He lived and not let a morsel go to waste.

I for one was a stray dog that begged at His table and He took me in and treated me as one of His own.

Life is only in Christ nothing you have of yourself.

 

[salzer mtn]

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Don't be disingenuous now. No one can drive them out, they were elected/appointed/determined/chosen/predestined/foreknown to go. So, when they do go, it's God's will be done, from the foundation of the world, no less. There was no choice, no prodding, no resisting and no human influence at all.

:tongue3:

LOL....surely you jest.... rather its a plan of exit's intended to correct deficiencies in the present operating organization. W/o Calvinists, the Synergist's can then argue with themselves. Hows that? :laugh: :godisgood:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

BTW......Ive no allegiance to Calvies or Non-Calvies..... though they are both entertaining.

 

[12strings]

All you have to do to prove me wrong is find one Gentile in scripture that is called elect. Better yet prove with scripture that you are elect.
MB

1. Let's start with Col. 3:12 - "Put on then, as God's chosen people..." (Eklektoi...strongs 1588...same as Romans 8:33 which you say applies only to the Jews). Would you say the Book of Colossians is written only to Jews?

2. If you were to explain the difference between the meaning of ELECT & CHOSEN...how would you do it?

 

[webdog]

1. Let's start with Col. 3:12 - "Put on then, as God's chosen people..." (Eklektoi...strongs 1588...same as Romans 8:33 which you say applies only to the Jews). Would you say the Book of Colossians is written only to Jews?

2. If you were to explain the difference between the meaning of ELECT & CHOSEN...how would you do it?

All of the first church plants were composed of primarily jews. The apostles took the Gospel to the synagogues.

 

[12strings]

All of the first church plants were composed of primarily jews. The apostles took the Gospel to the synagogues.

How are you sure of this? ...Paul called himself twice an "apostle to the gentiles."

 

[Herald]

The church in Jerusalem was predominately Jewish, but the churches in Asia Minor, and the rest of the Roman Empire, were mixed Jews and Gentiles. Acts 15 speaks directly to this issue. There were mass Gentile conversions just north of Judea in Samaria and Phonencia. Judaizers were trying to bring their works-based religion to these recent Gentile converts. The Council at Jerusalem had to deal with this controversy. The churches planted at Colossae, Philippi, Ephesus, and Corinth were all mixed.

 

[webdog]

How are you sure of this? ...Paul called himself twice an "apostle to the gentiles."

Yes...after taking the message to the jews first. The gentiles were not being veiled. The dispersion of the jews is what set the ball rolling in local church plants.

 

[12strings]

Yes...after taking the message to the jews first. The gentiles were not being veiled. The dispersion of the jews is what set the ball rolling in local church plants.

But you're saying you know for sure that at the time of the writing of the letter of collossians...the church was still ALL jews, which is why Paul uses the word "elect/Chosen" as a motivator for them to put off old ways, and put on new ways?