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Election,“For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God”
- Thread starter Alan Gross
- Start date
I know the Greek word order, thank you. I had my Greek NT open when I made my post #21. You need to know more than the Strongs number for τεταγμένοι; you need to know that it is not in the Aorist or the Imperfect, but in the Perfect Tense. It therefore does not mean 'being arranged;' it means 'having been arranged.' Those who had been arranged, appointed or ordained for eternal life believed. So it is translated in every Bible version that I'm aware of. There is a reason for that: it is what the words mean.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Martin even with your view of passive voice it does not help your case. We know there were God fearing gentiles that heard Paul speak. Act 13:16 "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen:" These were men that trusted in God they just did not know of Christ Jesus. This was the same for Cornelius. Acts of the Apostles 10:2-4. They already believed.
You have to ignore the context Act 13:13-48 in order to hold to your position. You should not take this one verse in isolation and use it as you have.
"τεταγμένοι The meaning of this word must be determined by the context. The Jews had judged themselves unworthy of eternal life: the Gentiles, as many as were disposed to eternal life, believed." Alford NT Greek The participle for tassō in Acts 13:48 could either be in the middle or passive voice, as both are spelled the same way in Greek.
Their belief was no passive working of God on their hearts and minds, but was their week-long consideration and response to what God was doing in their midst.
When we take the above into consideration we can see that those that were appointed to eternal life were appointed because they believed.
I have known many but NEVER one who believed “whosoever will”. They all fought it fiercely and fervently, denied it completely.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
"Comprehension" is the context of the last view posts.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Although, Biblically speaking, they had no ability Raise their dead soul from the dead, the Way God Raised Jesus from the Dead, which is How God Says He Saves souls, to be consistent throughout. "You hath He Quickened who where dead."
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Of course. The Revelation is that they were Saved by being, "wrought" of God.
- John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. 3:21 He that practiseth the truth (that is, true religion) cometh to the light - So even Nicodemus, afterward did. Are wrought in God - That is, in the light, power, and love of God.
37818
Well-Known Member
UnBiblical nonsense. Jesus taught, ". . .them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: . . ." -- Matthew 10:28.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Are you talking about something, here, 37?
37818
Well-Known Member
If you have to ask, is it because there are some truth or truths you do not believe? Maybe you are incapable to know?
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
That "soul" that man can't kill can be sent to Hell though, by Jesus, right?
I don't see what you are trying to relate to:
Alan Gross said: ↑
Although, Biblically speaking, they had no ability Raise their dead soul from the dead, the Way God Raised Jesus from the Dead, which is How God Says He Saves souls, to be consistent throughout. "You hath He Quickened who where dead."
The lost soul has no ability to Quicken themselves.
Unless a lost soul says that, by "dead", God is Saying the "lost soul can 'come alive on it's own', if it's pretty little head takes a fleshly, carnal, whim to"
But that is, "lost person's talk", not the Book.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Alan GrossWell-Known Member
A lost sinner remains dead in sins and trespasses,
until being Quickened & Renewed by the Holy Spirit,
and is thereby Spiritually Enabled to Answer the Effectual Call of God,
by and through the Instrumentation of The WORD of GOD
and to Embrace the Grace Offered and Conveyed in it;
by The Power, that Raised up Christ from the Dead.
i Eph. 1.19,20.
19 "And what is the Exceeding Greatness of His Power
to us-ward who believe, according to the Working of His Mighty Power,
20 Which He Wrought in Christ, when He Raised Him from the Dead,
and set Him at His Own Right Hand in the Heavenly Places,"
#1
What did they believe? Not in Christ because they did not know anything about Him, Therefore they could not be saved, 'For there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved' (Acts 4:12). And Cornelius was told, 'Call for Simon, whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and your family will be saved' (Acts 11:13-14). Cornelius, the Gentiles in Antioch and Lydia, were not save until they trusted in Christ. If people can be saved some other way, why on earth do we rouble to preach about Christ.
Well I'm one. How do you do?
But seriously, all Calvinists believe in 'whosoever will' because it's in the Bible. But they also believe that no one will unless God opens his heart to do so, because that's in the Bible (Matthew 11:25-27; John 6:44; Romans 3:11; 1 Corinthians 1:23-24; 2:14 etc.).
'Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved' (Romans 10:13). But people will not of themselves call on the name of the Lord, not because God prevents them, but because they have wicked, unbelieving hearts.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Well I'm one. How do you do?
But seriously, all Calvinists believe in 'whosoever will' because it's in the Bible. But they also believe that no one will unless God opens his heart to do so, because that's in the Bible (Matthew 11:25-27; John 6:44; Romans 3:11; 1 Corinthians 1:23-24; 2:14 etc.).
'Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved' (Romans 10:13). But people will not of themselves call on the name of the Lord, not because God prevents them, but because they have wicked, unbelieving hearts.
"You WILL NOT COME into Me"
37818
Well-Known Member
Revelation 20:15. Revelation 3:5. 1 John 5:4-5.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Take these one at a time and with (?);
Matthew 10:28; ?
28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
This is written to the lost.
Jesus isn't taking away the Saved and throwing them in Hell.
15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life
was cast into the lake of fire.
They weren't found, because they are left in their sins."
These, "whosoever" were lost from the beginning.
I make use of the word “rejection” in this article,
John Gill: Doctrinal Divinity - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
partly because it is a scriptural phrase and ascribed to God,
and partly because it is that act of God which gives the name of reprobate to any;
and is the foundation of that character,
“reprobate silver shall men call them,
because the Lord hath Rejected them”, (Jer 6:30)
and stands opposed to Election, (1 Sam. 15:26, 10:24)
1 Sam. 15:26; "But Samuel said to Saul,
“I Will Not Return with you, for you have rejected the Word of the Lord,
and the Lord has Rejected you from being king over Israel.”
10:24; "And Samuel said to all the people,
“Do you see him whom the Lord has Chosen,
that there is no one like him among all the people?”
So all the people shouted and said, “Long live the king!”
but chiefly because the other word reprobation,
through wrong and frightful ideas being affixed to it,
carries in it with many a sound harsh and disagreeable;
or otherwise they are of the same signification,
and no amendment is made in the doctrine or sense of it,
by using one instead of the other.
This doctrine of rejecting some angels
and some men from the divine favor,
is spoken of but sparingly in scripture,
yet clearly and plainly;
though chiefly left to be concluded from that of Election (.O.P.),
and from whence it most naturally and rationally follows.
I shall begin with,
You can gain a lot of understanding from the
THE DECREE OF REJECTION, OF SOME ANGELS,
before he talks about
THE DECREE OF REJECTION OF SOME MEN
John Gill: Doctrinal Divinity - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
5 "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment;
and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,
but I will confess his name before my Father,
and before his angels."
This "Book of Life" is the Book of The Living.
"He that overcometh (and live), the same (eventually)
shall be clothed in white raiment;
and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,"
Nothing about this, "book of life",
being the same that are associated
with The Lamb's Book of ETERNAL LIFE.
In Revelation 13:8 and 21:27,
we find the references to the "Lamb’s book of life,"
in which also are the names of all those
who have been Washed by the Blood of the Lamb, Jesus Christ.
The Lamb who has been “Slain from the Creation of the World”
has a book in which are Written
all those who have been Redeemed by His Sacrifice.
They are the ones who will Enter the Holy City, the New Jerusalem
(Revelation 21:10) and who will Live Forever in Heaven with God.
4 "For whatsoever is Born of God overcometh the world:
and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our Faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world,
but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"
THEY "BELIEVE" BECAUSE THEY WERE those souls:
"...He Predestined, these He also Called;"
When they were Called, they were Saved
and became, "the" "whosoever is Born of God"
"whom He Called, these He also Justified;
and whom He Justified, these He also Glorified."
Romans 8:30
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37818
Well-Known Member
You really do not know the relationship to Revelation 20:15? And Revelation,3:5?
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
As far as I know, what Harmonizes with Scripture.
Are you trying to make something of them, or just quoting them?
Are you going to link your article again?, because I don't buy it, at all.
37818
Well-Known Member
What is it, you specifically do not agree with?