Election and the covenant

[skypair]

Hey all,

This is certainly an interesting discussion! prince sees 6 covenants -- I see 7 adding the Adamic covenant of replenish the earth but don't eat the fruit,

Here's another thought or two:

1) The seals are a recapitulation of the 7 dispensations only this time rather than God intervening and making a new covenant, God lets the errors "play out" to Satan's advantage.

See, each seal signified a "payment" God made. This was symbolized (as in Jer 32) by a seal being affixed to the "title deed," Rev 10, the little book.

A brief look will show this:

1. Innocence lost -- white horse rider -- false Christianity
2. Conscience -- red horse -- Islam (hates Bro Israel who worships same God and take peace from earth)
3. Human gov't -- black horse -- Russia -- like Babel, man in charge without God
4. Family -- pale (sickly) horse -- Israel --
5. Law -- martyrs under altar -- the abrogation of the law was Islael killing the prophets God sent
6. kingdom -- "day of Christ is come" -- Christ was operating His kingdom until -- kingdom rejected/interrupted
7. grace -- Rev 16:21 -- immediately precedes Christ's return and MK (Here is the demonstration that kingdom was offered - grace came after Christ but interrupted His kingdom which is last.)



2) Therefore, I see the 7 spirits of God (Rev 5:6) being the 7 dispensations by which the "7 horns" represent the authorities God uses (parents, gov't, law, etc.) and by which we see God and He "sees" us -- 7 eyes."

skypair

 

[Pastor Larry]

Agreed, Noahic Covenant is not with Israel, but Noah and all humanity. I always include it because it is a "Biblical" covenant as opposed to the 2/3 non-Biblical covenants of CT.

I agree that the Noahic covenant is a biblical covenant, but here in the Dispensationalism/Covenantalism discussion, it had no relevance. So I wasn't even bringing it up.

Disagree about blending the Land C with the MC on the basis of:


De 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

And the unconditional aspects of the LC/PC which I cannot see as having been done away when the MC was done away.

The MC was not done away. The conditions for living in the land (LC/PC) were the living faithfully under the MC. If you read Deut 28-30 you see that living in the land is dependent on keeping the MC.

To all, FTR, I disagree with virtually that SkyPair says about the seals and the dispensations. (No offense to Skypair by saying that, but simply to clarify that that is not my view in anyway. )

 

[TCGreek]

Guilty of putting labels? Sure. Where they do not belong? I don't think so. I think teh difference between the dispensations and the covenants of grace/works is the biblical foundation. The definition of dispensation is essentially an economy in God's plan with man wherein man is responsible to God for the revelation given him. That simply means that as revelation increased (progressive revelation), mans' responsibility changed (the content of his saving faith).

1. I take it that you agree to the four distinct covenants that I outlined, but how do they fit into your 7-dispensational schema?

2. "Man's responsibility changed (the content of his saving faith)," I thought man of all age is saved by grace through faith." Can you elaborate?

 

[rjprince]

I agree that the Noahic covenant is a biblical covenant, but here in the Dispensationalism/Covenantalism discussion, it had no relevance. So I wasn't even bringing it up.
The MC was not done away. The conditions for living in the land (LC/PC) were the living faithfully under the MC. If you read Deut 28-30 you see that living in the land is dependent on keeping the MC.
To all, FTR, I disagree with virtually that SkyPair says about the seals and the dispensations. (No offense to Skypair by saying that, but simply to clarify that that is not my view in anyway.)

PL,

Sorry, I was not clear. The Mosaic Law is done away now, nailed to the cross. I do not see the provisions of the land covenant being done away as far as Israel would one day be brought back to the land from which she was driven. LC/PC did not do away with the MC, the cross did. But the cross did not do away with the following:

Deut 30:
1 ¶ And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
7 And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.

Yes, living in the land was dependent on keeping the MC, but returning to the land and having a circumcised heart was a provision of the LC/PC, never the MC. Therefore, I contend that they are separate and distinct, and of course the clear statement to that effect:

Deut 29:1 – "the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb."