"Election of God"

[KenH]

1 Thessalonians 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

“This is of God, an act of God the Father, made in Christ Jesus before the world began, and which springs from his sovereign will, and is the effect of his pure love and free favour; and therefore these persons who are the objects of it are said to be "beloved of God."
…
For this choice does not arise from the merits of men, or any conditions in them, or from the foresight of their faith, holiness, and good works, but from the free grace and good pleasure of God; and is the source and spring of all grace, and the blessings of it, and even of good works; and is a sure, immutable, and irreversible act of God, being founded on his own will, and not on the works of men.”

- excerpt from John Gill’s Bible Commentary on 1 Thessalonians 1:4

 

[37818]

Election is preceded by its call.
Unconditional election is an unBiblical Calvinist invention.

 

[JD731]

1 Thessalonians 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

“This is of God, an act of God the Father, made in Christ Jesus before the world began, and which springs from his sovereign will, and is the effect of his pure love and free favour; and therefore these persons who are the objects of it are said to be "beloved of God."
…
For this choice does not arise from the merits of men, or any conditions in them, or from the foresight of their faith, holiness, and good works, but from the free grace and good pleasure of God; and is the source and spring of all grace, and the blessings of it, and even of good works; and is a sure, immutable, and irreversible act of God, being founded on his own will, and not on the works of men.”

- excerpt from John Gill’s Bible Commentary on 1 Thessalonians 1:4

Election is a Bible doctrine. God chose Jesus Christ "before" the foundation of the world and he chose all those the Spirit immerses (baptizes) into his body. Election is a trinitarian idea of the trinitarian God. Therefore he elected all others "from" the foundation of the world, when the Spirit put them into Christ.

Here are the functions of the Godhead in the salvation of an individual soul.

God the Father = Justification, taking away the condemnation.
God the Son - He died for us, paying our penalty, without which there could be no justification.
God the Spirit, indwelling the believer's body, giving him the life of God by his presence and placing him in Christ;s body.

This answers the prayer of Jesus in John 17.

Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Do not allow the Reformed to teach you an anti gospel.


Jn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me (Jesus Christ) before the foundation of the world.

He did not say in this context that he loved us before the foundation of the world. This is significant.

 

[KenH]

Christ's death saved no one.

Well, at least you admit that you a conditionalist and do not believe the Bible that salvation is 100% by the free grace of God.

 

[Van]

Ever wonder what Calvinists are saying with "made in Christ before the world began?"

Are they claiming individuals were chosen for salvation not through faith in the truth as taught in 2 Thessalonians 2:13? Yes
Are they claiming all the people chosen by God always existed as a chosen people, rather than having existed as not a people per 1 Peter 2:9-10. Yes.
So how were people chosen before creation? Corporately, because when God chose His Redeemer, the Lamb of God before creation, He also chose corporate whoever His Redeemer would redeem.
Who are those chosen? Those God credits with righteous faith, Romans 4:23-25.

 

[KenH]

Ever wonder what Calvinists are saying with "made in Christ before the world began?"

Are they claiming individuals were chosen for salvation not through faith in the truth as taught in 2 Thessalonians 2:13? Yes
Are they claiming all the people chosen by God always existed as a chosen people, rather than having existed as not a people per 1 Peter 2:9-10. Yes.
So how were people chosen before creation? Corporately, because when God chose His Redeemer, the Lamb of God before creation, He also chose corporate whoever His Redeemer would redeem.
Who are those chosen? Those God credits with righteous faith, Romans 4:23-25.

Well, at least you admit that you a conditionalist and do not believe the Bible that salvation is 100% by the free grace of God.

 

[Van]

Well, at least you admit that you a conditionalist and do not believe the Bible that salvation is 100% by the free grace of God.

Did I use that word? Nope. Truth matters...

Ever wonder what Calvinists are saying with "made in Christ before the world began?"

Are they claiming individuals were chosen for salvation not through faith in the truth as taught in 2 Thessalonians 2:13? Yes
Are they claiming all the people chosen by God always existed as a chosen people, rather than having existed as not a people per 1 Peter 2:9-10. Yes.
So how were people chosen before creation? Corporately, because when God chose His Redeemer, the Lamb of God before creation, He also chose corporately whoever His Redeemer would redeem.
Who are those chosen? Those God credits with righteous faith, Romans 4:23-25.
Unconditional Election is a complete fiction, denying 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and James 2:5

 

[37818]

Ever wonder what Calvinists are saying with "made in Christ before the world began?"

Ephesians 1:3-4, ". . . hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should . . ." The common Calvinist presupposition is the "chosen" meaning the election. Of course is the misinterpretation.

 

[AustinC]

Ever wonder what Calvinists are saying with "made in Christ before the world began?"

Are they claiming individuals were chosen for salvation not through faith in the truth as taught in 2 Thessalonians 2:13? Yes
Are they claiming all the people chosen by God always existed as a chosen people, rather than having existed as not a people per 1 Peter 2:9-10. Yes.
So how were people chosen before creation? Corporately, because when God chose His Redeemer, the Lamb of God before creation, He also chose corporate whoever His Redeemer would redeem.
Who are those chosen? Those God credits with righteous faith, Romans 4:23-25.

When did God give YOU faith, Van. It's a very simple question. On the timeline of your life, when did God give you faith, Van?

 

[KenH]

The common Calvinist presupposition is the "chosen" meaning the election. Of course is the misinterpretation.

The Bible teaches that God chooses, or elects(to elect is to choose), not man, in spite of fallen man wishing to cling to his alleged "libertarian free will".

 

[KenH]

Who are those chosen?

The chosen are those whom God the Father gave to God the Son before the foundation of the world to be their Surety, they are the ones whose sins were imputed to Christ and Christ's perfect righteousness was imputed to them.

 

[Van]

The chosen are those whom God the Father gave to God the Son before the foundation of the world to be their Surety, they are the ones whose sins were imputed to Christ and Christ's perfect righteousness was imputed to them.

The chosen existed as not a people chosen for God's possession according to scripture. Your claim is simply unbiblical.

 

[AustinC]

The Bible teaches that God chooses, or elects(to elect is to choose), not man, in spite of fallen man wishing to cling to his alleged "libertarian free will".

The chosen existed as not a people chosen for God's possession according to scripture. Your claim is simply unbiblical.

And yet, that's what the Bible tells us. Go figure...

 

[KenH]

And yet, that's what the Bible tells us. Go figure...

Yeah, folks such as Van are daisy-ists, as their view of God is "Days He loves me, and days He doesn't."

It is as if they gnash their teeth at the teaching of Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

 

[KenH]

The chosen existed as not a people chosen for God's possession according to scripture.

God's elect, in their standing, were loved by God from all eternity; their standing never changes. Their state in their earthly existence as they live it does change:

Not a people, now the people of God; without having obtained mercy, now having obtained mercy: 1 Peter 2:10 which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Were darkness, now light in the Lord: Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord.

 

[Van]

God's elect, in their standing, were loved by God from all eternity. Their state in their earthly existence as they live it does change:

Not a people, now the people of God; without having obtained mercy, now having obtained mercy: 1 Peter 2:10 which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Were darkness, now light in the Lord: Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord.

If, as your man-made doctrine claims, we had been chosen individually before creation, then we would have always been a people chosen for God" possession, thus nullifying 1 Peter 2:9-10.

Next you claim I support the idea that some days God loves me and some days He does not. But no quote, because the false claim is straight up slander.

 

[KenH]

If, as your man-made doctrine claims, we had been chosen individually before creation, then we would have always been a people chosen for God" possession, thus nullifying 1 Peter 2:9-10.

"Which in time were not a people,.... A "Loammi" being put upon them; see Hosea 1:9 to which the apostle here refers: God's elect, whether among Jews or Gentiles, were, from eternity, his chosen people, and his covenant people; and, as such, were given to Christ, and they became his people, and his care and charge; and he saved them by his obedience, sufferings, and death, and redeemed them to himself, a peculiar people: but then, before conversion, they are not a people formed by God for himself, and his praise; nor Christ's willing people, either to be saved by him, or to serve him; nor are they, nor can they be truly known by themselves, or others, to be the people of God.
...
but are now the people of God; being regenerated, called, and sanctified, they are avouched by God to be his people; they have the witness of the Spirit to their spirits, that they are the people of God; they can then claim their relation to God, and are known, acknowledged, and called the people of God."

- excerpt from John Gill's Bible Commentary on 1 Peter 2:10

 

[Van]

Good Grief, now we get a copy and past bogus commentary!

1 Peter 2:10 (Interpretive translation)

Once not the People, yet now the People of God; not having been shown mercy, yet now shown mercy.

First who are the people being addressed, as another ploy used to nullify scripture is to claim the verse does not apply to whom it applies. Is this verse referring to the nation of Israel, comprised of people chosen to be His people. Nope as they were called out of darkness into His marvelous light. Born anew believers are being addressed.

The commentary ignores that if chosen individually before creation, then those individuals would have always been a chosen people of God and thus always shown mercy.

Once again we see the slide of hand where election is changed to salvation. Not how the passage reads.

Instead of the people being chosen by God, they are those saved or regenerated or formed or anything but chosen people of God.​

 

[KenH]

if chosen individually before creation, then those individuals would have always been a chosen people of God and thus always shown mercy.

In their standing, yes, always, in their state in time, no, not always.

 

[AustinC]

Good Grief, now we get a copy and past bogus commentary!

1 Peter 2:10 (Interpretive translation)

Once not the People, yet now the People of God; not having been shown mercy, yet now shown mercy.

First who are the people being addressed, as another ploy used to nullify scripture is to claim the verse does not apply to whom it applies. Is this verse referring to the nation of Israel, comprised of people chosen to be His people. Nope as they were called out of darkness into His marvelous light. Born anew believers are being addressed.

The commentary ignores that if chosen individually before creation, then those individuals would have always been a chosen people of God and thus always shown mercy.

Once again we see the slide of hand where election is changed to salvation. Not how the passage reads.

Instead of the people being chosen by God, they are those saved or regenerated or formed or anything but chosen people of God.​

@Earth Wind and Fire provided a video on salvation that you need to grasp.

Five Phases of Salvation: When Were You Saved?