Election vs. Free Will

Hi Hardseller;
a quote from you;
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Why do folks from the Church of Christ and Seventh Day Adventist Church post on the Baptist Board anyway? Don't they have enough folks in their own groups to discuss with?
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My reply;
Should we exclude some because you want everyone to agree with you.What kind of a debate would that be.there is no debate when everyone agree's.besides I'm one who disagrees with you most and I'm a Baptist.Are you sure your a Baptist I thought you were a Calvinist.
Romanbear

 

I assume/hope that was said tongue in cheek. I, for one am a Baptist who believes, as I quoted Spurgeon earlier, that Calvinism is a nickname for the gospel.

 

As long as we have this subject in this baptist only section of the forum, there is something I would like to ask the baptist brethern about.

I have been a christian for 34 years. Back in 1969 I do not remember a single reformed baptist church here in Houston, Texas, and this is a large city. Where did these reformed baptist churches come from?

 

I don't know, John--I think I agree with you too much to consider you a full-fledged Calvinist! (But I understand where you're coming from...)

 

DT,

I agree that you agree that we think we agree!

 

predestination AND freedom

freedestination AND predom

 

They Discovered the Bible?

 

Romanbear, I just don't have time to debate confused Church of Christ folks and 7th Day Adventists. I've got more Baptists to straighten out than I've got time for!

 

This is typical. I am being serious and am asking a serious question. Would someone please answer my question. It is not a trick question. I want to know the answer.

 

I don't know the complete answer but I do believe the Founder's Conferance in the SBC has made a major impact on the growth of Reformed Baptist churches in the USA. The Founder's Conferance has challenged Baptists to look at the faith of our fathers. The influence of John MacArthur on Baptist thought on the doctrines of grace should not be underestimated. I remember back in the later 80's when his book The Gospel According to Jesus came out. It had a great impact on many to reject decisionist theology and turn back to Reformation theology. Just my opinion.

 

What exactly is the "Founder's Conference"? I've never heard of it. I've been in the SBC all of my life, but this conference must have escaped my notice.

I think MacArthur's book is great! It had a great impact on MY thinking as well. It really opened my eyes to the pervasiveness of "Easy-believism" in today's evangelical circles. I also read his follow-up book, THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO THE APOSTLES, last year and enjoyed it just as much. Though I don't agree with all the specific nuances of his Calvinistic theology (nor do I necessarily agree with his pre-trib eschatology), I have a tremendous respect for John MacArthur, and I've given both my wife and my sister MacArthur Study Bibles.

 

Hi Doubting Thomas (Like your handle )

The Website for the Founders is at Founder's Ministry. Regarding John MacArthur, the only major disagreement I have with him is his Dispensational Pre Trib theology. Take that out of his Bible and it would be better than R.C. Sproul's Calvinist New Geneva Study Bible.

 

Thanks for the info.

Yeah, I'm not a pre-tribber, but I still consider myself a "Dispensationalist" more or less.
I'm obviously not a five-point Calvinist, either, but I can understand where someone like MacArthur is coming from.
Peace.

 

I do not see a quandary. God desires all men to be saved, but many will refuse His offer of grace. Why is this such a difficult concept to understand?

Rev G,
I have been members of both Southern Baptist and Indpenedent Baptist churches. Only once was I a member of a Calvinist church (It was not a baptist church). As soon as I figured out that they were hyper-calvinist I left. </font>[/QUOTE]No one comes to the Son, except the Father first draws him…. Those that come to him, he will in no wise cast out….. End of argument…..

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, but everyone doesn’t except that faith…. Only those that God chose before the foundation of the world…. This is the free gift that he gives to his chosen ones…. This is mercy bestowed upon the unregenerate sinner…. There is no such thing as a righteous sinner choosing God….. The Spirit goes where it wills and no one knows where it comes from, or where it goes, but they feel the effects of the spiritual movement……

Who has resisted his will? If God’s wills for your blinded eyes to be opened, brother, you’re going to see the light!!! The same way Paul saw it on the road to Damascus…..

If you can show me a dead man that can revive himself, and raise up from the grave, then I’ll show you someone who chooses to be saved, without the spirit of God first guiding him….. Life cannot come from death…. First, there must be life in order to regenerate the dead man. That life is in the Son…. Again, only God can create life from death….

Jesus said, “let the dead bury the dead”…. Why? Because it wasn’t the fathers will to save those, or else, he would have raised them from the dead, just as he had done for Lazarus…..

 

Terry,

Southern Baptist Calvinists are not Hyper-Calvinists! We believe in evangelism just like all good Baptists do, But we do not believe that Salvation is a matter of the human will.

In the words of L. R. Scarborough, the great Southern Baptist evangelist and scholar our beliefs concerning the activity of God in Salvation are as follows:

1. He foreknows, predestinates, elects
2. He Calls
3. He convinces and convicts of sin
4. He quickens
5. He worketh Godly Sorrow
6. He giveth repentance

Sadly, Dr. Scarborough and Dr. E.Y. Mullins, departed from their earlier convictions and led Southern Baptists toward the road which led to a practice and belief in decisional regeneration.

Southern Baptists are rediscovering the roots that Scarborough and Mullins abandoned and discovering that they are a treasure to be cherished in the theological desert of modern Southern Baptist pragmatism and anthropocentrism.

 

Wrapping calvinism up in Southern Baptist clothes does not change the fact that it is still a perversion of the truth of the gospel.

 

"wrapping bleeding heart armenianism in Any Baptist Clothes does not change the fact that it is a perversion of the Gospel blah blah blah"

Anybody can spout that garbage, you really told them off didn't you

The Bible clearly teaches the sovereignty of God, not to mention the predestination of the elect, as well as the free will of man, so get over it.

Our free will is contained within the context of the will of God. And we are completely without the ability to accept God's Mercy on his terms, the Spiritual life required within oneself to enable the acceptance of God's free gift of eternal life can only come from the Holy Spirit of God bearing witness with our spirit. That's what Grace is! If you could choose salvation, it would cease to be a free gift, and become something that God had to give you if you asked for it. That is against both the nature of man and the nature of God. Even if it were not so clearly outlined in scripture!

 

Superdave,
I don't know how you interperet your bible, but let me assure you that calvinism is NOT taught in the Word of God. It turns a loving God into an evil tyrant.

 

I'm not wrapping up calvinism in any kind of clothes. I'm just pointing out that Calvinism or the Doctrines of Grace was a commonly held and majority position among Southern Baptists at the time of their organization in 1845 and for many years afterward.

 

Hardsheller,
Before 1845 was Calvinism taught in many baptist churches?

Up until recently, I have always been involved in IFB churches here in Houston, Texas. None of the churches I have know or were involved with ever preached Calvinism. In fact, all the IFB pastors I have sat under would sound a strong warning against calvinism. Now, I find that this doctrine is prevalent on this Baptist Board. Who left the door open and let the devil in?