Ellen White as Prophet = SDA Doctrine?

[targus]

Will the SDA accept anyone into their church that does not accept that Ellen White is a Prophet?

 

[BobRyan]

yes. In fact a large number of Adventists in Europe do exactly that - they join without accepting the fact that Ellen White had the 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Here is the "longer" form of that answer from another thread.

The basis for even knowing and accepting any prophet is the 1Cor 12 basis of spiritual gifts. Turns out the gift of prophecy is one of them.

1Thess 5:19-20 says that we are neither to "quench the Spirit" nor are we to "despise prophetic messages".

1Cor 14 says that when the NT church met "EACH ONE had a teaching, a revelation, a tongue" - yet we know that we have no text of scripture handed down to us today from "each one at the church of Corinth". Thus we have one of many examples that the gift of prophecy did not necessarily make one a "Bible writer".

Rev 19 states that the saints are known as those who have the Testimony of Jesus - which is (according to the text) the "Spirit of prophecy"

1 John 4 tells us to test the prophets. We are not to accept everyone who claims the gift of prophecy.

The first test of a prophet is the Is 8:20 test "to the Law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word - they have no light"

1Cor 14 states that prophecy is "a sign for believers" - that is those who hold to the same understanding of the Bible - a common doctrinal POV that can be used to test the prophets. Hence the basis for Adventists to test and accept someone like Ellen White based on evaluating her messages "sola scriptura".

For that reason (obviously) a context where not all Christians are in agreement on all doctrines - you have no basis for insisting that they all accept a methodist, or baptist, or presbyterian, or Adventist as a prophet.

Just stating the obvious so far.
==========================================
Note "the detail" that I am not asking whether you agree with the response - I am asking if you can read and understand it.

It is not required that all sides agree on every issue - but the basic ability to read and understand the response is the first step in actual communication.

Sounds Biblical to me thus far BR.:thumbsup:

Bob. i think we all understand your position on the gift of prophecy. What is being sought is would a person be accepted and baptised into your church if they disagreed, not on the gift of prophecy, but on EGW qualifying as being one of those prophets.

Yes the would be accepted. In fact that is the case with a large number of Adventists in Europe. But there are also those in the U.S that take that same position.

In other words, can I be baptised into your congregation if I do not agree that EGW was a qualified prophet? I'm sure you probably have membership classes prior to accepting a person into your congregation. Is the subject of EGW part of these classes and is it a requirement to accept her as a prophet in order to be accepted and baptised?

:godisgood:

The membership classes - include the history of both the Millerites and the Adventists, as well as the fact of Ellen White's ministry in the 1800's and early 1900's. (that class also includes the fact of the mistaken predictions made by the Millerites in 1843 and in 1844 and how that lead to the formation of the Adventist church).

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

yes. In fact a large number of Adventists in Europe do exactly that - they join without accepting the fact that Ellen White had the 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy.

in Christ,

Bob

GE:
Dear Bob, Isn't your wording preposterous, ".... accepting the fact ....". Could you not simply have said, "without accepting .... that Ellen White had the 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy"?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

While I was a teenager (an unknown concept to me then) I learned passages from books by Mrs E.G. White by heart. I was second year at varsity when I saw the inside of a 'bioscope' for the first time, and did not partake in any sport; so I had the time. I thought 'she' was wonderfull. I still believe 'she' kept me a 'good' young man. But the legalism - another unknown concept to me then - began to put me off, and I cannot remember that I ever read anything from 'her' or the Adventists for about fifty years after I failed my course and left varsity.

I read Mrs White again the first time after my sister passed away. She was a fervent SDA until her death, although she accepted 'the fact' yes! Jesus rose from the dead "On the Sabbath", and encouraged and inspired me to write 'easy essays' for 'ordinary people like me', she said.

I accidentally in her house picked up "the Desire of Ages" a week or so before her death, and started to read 'Mrs White' again. The period lasted at most a year, I should say.

Two things during this 'reading-session' of mine, made me see two things before all else.

1) Mrs White ONLY ONCE made the claim that the SDA Church would proclaim the Sabbath "more fully". That statement of hers appears in her "Early Testimonies" or something (I have again forgotten exactly). She made MANY statements that the SDA Church would receive 'more' light' etc. BUT NEVER AGAIN ANYTHING LIKE IT SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE SABBATH. Now I can only think in two ways about this 'fact'. No, three.

1) She and the rest of her Church must have begun to think they possess ALL the 'light' on the Sabbath already;
2) The Church leaders forbade her to make such a statement on 'the Sabbath truth' again, either because they did not believe 'more light' would come on it, or they must have made a truce with anti-'Sabbatarians' to let the subject alone;
3) That she was a false prophetess and her 'prophecy' never fulfilled because she is a false prophetess.

The second 'thing' I discovered was that Mrs White denies the Father raised the Son, and that He was ABSENT from the Son from before He died until some time well after He rose again, and that an angel called Him from the grave -- an afair that was so common the guard stood watching and they became the first witnesses of the Resurrection. And - what I discovered was - that THIS IS FUNDAMENTAL FOR THEIR DOCTRINE OF 'THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGEMENT'.

I discovered a few months after that either she or one .... what's his name again .... Lobster .... Robster .... forgot for the moment ...., plagiarised from one another.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BobRyan:
"The membership classes - include the history of both the Millerites and the Adventists, as well as the fact of Ellen White's ministry in the 1800's and early 1900's. (that class also includes the fact of the mistaken predictions made by the Millerites in 1843 and in 1844 and how that lead to the formation of the Adventist church)."

GE:
You see Bob, this is what annoys me so; it's not the SDAs or Mrs White who ever make mistakes; it's the Millerites or Adventists or anything BUT you, your Church, or, 'US' the SDAs!

 

[steaver]

GE:
Dear Bob, Isn't your wording preposterous, ".... accepting the fact ....". Could you not simply have said, "without accepting .... that Ellen White had the 1Cor 12 gift of prophecy"?

Good eye GE. I didn't notice it before.

I think, from what I gather from Bob's replies to me, that the SDA looks at one who does not believe in EGW as simply not having yet been convicted by the Holy Spirit of it's truth.

One of two things has happened;
1) the Spirit has not convicted the believer yet for some reason known only by God.
2) the Spirit has convicted the believer and the believer is resisting in rebellion for some reason known only to the believer.

If the SDA church made "accepting EGW as prophet" a requirement they know full well that their exsitence as an acceptable Christian sect would be highly diminished. So to prevent this they allow believers to not "accept the fact" and work on "bringing them around" after they have them worshipping in their church and under their influence.

:jesus:

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You know, if only the SDA Church had the guts to say, we were wrong, we are wrong, perhaps - for the love I used to have for my people who were Seventh Day Adventists - I today perhaps would have been a Seventh Day Adventist still, mistakes and wrong despite.

 

[steaver]

You know, if only the SDA Church had the guts to say, we were wrong, we are wrong, perhaps - for the love I used to have for my people who were Seventh Day Adventists - I today perhaps would have been a Seventh Day Adventist still, mistakes and wrong despite.

In this they are as the Catholics. They simply cannot be wrong, writings are simply misunderstood.

:jesus:

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Only last Sabbath I BEGGED a SDA Congregation to read some of my literature. Asked they me, Are you a Seventh-day Adventist in good standing?

Now, what IS, a 'Seventh-day Adventist in good standing'?

That one is 'on our books'; has a 'certificate of baptism', has never been ordered for sinful and unrepentant behaviour before the 'Kerkraad'?; pays tithes? Contributed personally to the building up of the Congregation physically, financially or otherwise, maybe even 'spiritually'? Well then, WHO HAS EVIDENCE AGAINST MY APPEAL I am, a 'Seventh-day Adventist in good standing'?

Or is the question one is a 'Seventh-day Adventist in good standing' decided upon 'doctrine', on whether one is AGAINST the Resurrection of Christ for reason, standard and judgment in EVERYTHING concerning the Faith or the conduct of the confessing CHRISTIAN, or for the LAW rather? Then PLEASE WHO WILL BE FOR MY APPEAL I DESIRE NEVER TO BE A SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST 'in good standing'!?

 

[BobRyan]

GE:
You see Bob, this is what annoys me so; it's not the SDAs or Mrs White who ever make mistakes; it's the Millerites or Adventists or anything BUT you, your Church, or, 'US' the SDAs!

Feel free to vent all you like GE.

I was just responding to the questions.

in Christ,

Bob