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In Christ,"Is the Blessed Virgin powerful enough to obtain the salvation of her true servants? Yes. The Blessed Virgin is powerful enough to obtain the salvation of her true servants, that is, those who from the bottom of their hearts without ceasing ask her to help them to rise from sin, to live in the light of the Gospel, and to die in the love of God."
- Short Catechism Of Mary, Cardinal Charles Journet, pg 56
In a 1985 address at the Marian shrine in Guayaquil, Ecuador, Pope John Paul II said:
"Mary goes before us and accompanies us. The silent journey that begins with her Immaculate Conception and passes through the ‘yes’ of Nazareth, which makes her the Mother of God, finds on Calvary a particularly important moment. There also, accepting and assisting at the sacrifice of her son, Mary is the dawn of Redemption....Crucified spiritually with her crucified son
(cf. Gal. 2:20), she contemplated with heroic love the death of her God, she ‘lovingly consented to the immolation of this Victim which she herself had brought forth’ (Lumen Gentium, 58)....In fact, at Calvary she united herself with the sacrifice of her Son that led to the foundation of the Church; her maternal heart shared to the very depths the will of Christ ‘to gather into one all the dispersed children of God’ (Jn. 11:52). Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity....In fact, Mary's role as Coredemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son" (Inseg VIII/1 (1985) 318-319 [ORE 876:7]).
All Powerful Mary –
"Mary is all powerful with her divine Son who grants all graces to mankind through her" - Pope Benedict XV, Fausto Appetente Die
"All power is given to Thee [Mary] in heaven and on earth that at the command of Mary all obey, even God." - Alphonsus de Liguori, Roman Catholic Cardinal and "saint", from his book The Glories of Mary
Since the Mother, then, should have the same power as the Son, rightly has Jesus, who is omnipotent, made Mary also omnipotent; The Glories of Mary. (pp 180-181)
"She is omnipotent, because by her prayers she obtains whatever SHE wills. (The Glories of Mary pp 182)
"With a still more ardent zeal for piety, religion and love, let them continue to [bvenerate, invoke and pray to the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, conceived without original sin. Let them fly with utter confidence to this most sweet Mother of mercy and grace in all dangers, difficulties, needs, doubts and fears. Under her guidance, under her patronage, under her kindness and protection, nothing is to be feared; nothing is hopeless. Because,
while bearing toward us a truly motherly affection and having in her care the work of our salvation, she is solicitous about the whole human race." - Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus
I got it from church history! The Pope clearly condemned Copernicus as a heretic for saying that the Earth revolved around the sun.You contradict yourself by saying that the declaratoin of infallibility of Vatican I was an attempt to cover up past mistakes such as the Copernicus. Catholicism never condemned Copernicus, where'd you get that.
That is because Christ's legal "home city" was Bethlehem, and it was prophesied that Christ would be from Bethlehem (see Micah 5:2). Your argument is nothing more than a lame attempt to explain away the declarations of Vatican 1 as if they were nothing more than the church's recognition of what God had already ordained and the church fathers had affirmed - ridiculous! By the way, how many of the church fathers ever mentioned papal infallibility? Ex cathedra? None. They recognized the church's authority as one that was to preserve Christ's body from heresy, but apparently it hasn't worked out too well.Tell me, in the year 30 AD it was written that Jesus was going to be from Nazareth in Luke's Gospel. First time ever that it was written. So was it believed before that time? Awfully convenient of Luke to write it after the fact. In fact it wasnt' even mentioned in the Old Testament
Wow, really...then why did none of the church fathers ever bother to mention papal infallibility? And even if they did (which they didn't), where can papal infallibility be found in the Bible? In fact, wasn't Peter (the so-called first Pope of the RCC) found to be in error when Paul corrected him (see Gal. 2:11-12)? The whole doctrine of papal infallibility is a godless working of sinful man.Ignatus of Antioch and Irenaus from the very earliest post apostolic writings speak of the purity of doctrine of the Church in Rome. So infallibility was quite clearly recognized then.
Adam, they may not say it that way, but what else could they mean? If you turned away from God's covenant (as you and Carson argued he can do) then wouldn't you have to be re-saved in order to re-enter that covenant? Catholic soteriology is a horrible mess of venial vs. mortal sins that is self-referentially incoherent.They are speaking two different languages. I've never once heard a Catholic use the term "re-saved" as in I went to "confession and got resaved".
In Christ,Originally posted by BobRyan:
Brother Adam - in that new line of agreement - consider this as well...
In the God-like qualities attributed to Mary in RC mythology we find the following...
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
"Is the Blessed Virgin powerful enough to obtain the salvation of her true servants? Yes. The Blessed Virgin is powerful enough to obtain the salvation of her true servants, that is, those who from the bottom of their hearts without ceasing ask her to help them to rise from sin, to live in the light of the Gospel, and to die in the love of God."
- Short Catechism Of Mary, Cardinal Charles Journet, pg 56
In a 1985 address at the Marian shrine in Guayaquil, Ecuador, Pope John Paul II said:
"Mary goes before us and accompanies us. The silent journey that begins with her Immaculate Conception and passes through the ‘yes’ of Nazareth, which makes her the Mother of God, finds on Calvary a particularly important moment. There also, accepting and assisting at the sacrifice of her son, Mary is the dawn of Redemption....Crucified spiritually with her crucified son
(cf. Gal. 2:20), she contemplated with heroic love the death of her God, she ‘lovingly consented to the immolation of this Victim which she herself had brought forth’ (Lumen Gentium, 58)....In fact, at Calvary she united herself with the sacrifice of her Son that led to the foundation of the Church; her maternal heart shared to the very depths the will of Christ ‘to gather into one all the dispersed children of God’ (Jn. 11:52). Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity....In fact, Mary's role as Coredemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son" (Inseg VIII/1 (1985) 318-319 [ORE 876:7]).
All Powerful Mary –
"Mary is all powerful with her divine Son who grants all graces to mankind through her" - Pope Benedict XV, Fausto Appetente Die
"All power is given to Thee [Mary] in heaven and on earth that at the command of Mary all obey, even God." - Alphonsus de Liguori, Roman Catholic Cardinal and "saint", from his book The Glories of Mary
Since the Mother, then, should have the same power as the Son, rightly has Jesus, who is omnipotent, made Mary also omnipotent; The Glories of Mary. (pp 180-181)
"She is omnipotent, because by her prayers she obtains whatever SHE wills. (The Glories of Mary pp 182)
"With a still more ardent zeal for piety, religion and love, let them continue to [bvenerate, invoke and pray to the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, conceived without original sin. Let them fly with utter confidence to this most sweet Mother of mercy and grace in all dangers, difficulties, needs, doubts and fears. Under her guidance, under her patronage, under her kindness and protection, nothing is to be feared; nothing is hopeless. Because,
while bearing toward us a truly motherly affection and having in her care the work of our salvation, she is solicitous about the whole human race." - Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus
You know reading your last three posts, I have determined the issue that seems problematic in your posts about the canon.I think you are struggling with this issue because the RCCs have convinced you that their church decided what the canon was. They didn't. God decided it and worked through history to bring that out.
Discovering the lack of "objectivity" of such a blatant effrot to equivocate - is left as an exercise for the reader.Adam said --
As I said on another thread, I'm not Catholic. I believe Mary is held in too high a regard by many RCC. However, I'm not sure all of those statements were made ex-cathedra. I could quote a SDA who flat out denied Christs divinity I met online once. Naturally though, he wouldn't speak for everyone.
Do you really believe that? Thats amazing. The current RCC bears absolutly no resemblance to the 1st century church."Where do the "merits of the Catholic Church" comde from when she is the only church who can trace her history, doctrines and faith back to Jesus Christ Himself?"
No. Absolutly not. We do not embrace one denomination among so many in order to embrace Christ."Is not embracing the Church, embracing Christ who founded the Church?"
Apparently you have not been to Mass in a while. Read much St. Justin Martyr?Originally posted by D28guy:
Do you really believe that? Thats amazing. The current RCC bears absolutly no resemblance to the 1st century church.
There are no demoninations in Christ's Church, so in that respect, you are correct. There is Christ's Church, and there are those assemblies that have an imcomplete revelation (Scripture alone).Originally posted by D28guy:
No. Absolutly not. We do not embrace one denomination among so many in order to embrace Christ.
I'll be doing that in the Eucharistic celebration tonight. Praise God!Originally posted by D28guy:
To embrace Jesus Christ we embrace Jesus Christ!
As long as you don't see the emotional response as necessary. Receiving Christ is not an experience of emotion, but of Spirit.Originally posted by D28guy:
I recieved Christ through faith alone...laying face down in that bed drowning in my own tears.
Which is why all Baptized persons are implicitly but not explicitly part of Christ's Church.Originally posted by D28guy:
And "the Church", from a biblical perspective, is nothing but all born again people. Period.
And no Catholic says you become "part of the Church" when you are added to a "membership record." You become part of Christ's Church at your Baptism.Originally posted by D28guy:
It was probably 2 or 3 months later when God lead me to a place where many of His born again people gather for corporate worship and fellowship. But I certainly was not added to "the church" when I started fellowshipping there.
And are we being told that receiving Christ via Catholicism is an experience of the Spirit whereas receiving Christ without some connection to Catholicism is a fake.....Get real !Receiving Christ is not an experience of emotion, but of Spirit.
And no Catholic says you become "part of the Church" when you are added to a "membership record." You become part of Christ's Church at your Baptism.
No, if you would listen you would realize that you are being told Catholics teach the "norm" for life in the faith is through the Church Christ established.And are we being told that receiving Christ via Catholicism is an experience of the Spirit whereas receiving Christ without some connection to Catholicism is a fake.....Get real !
Of course water has no magical powers- where do you get these ideas? The Word of God though is very powerful! If the only purpose of baptism is to "get wet" then Christ would have not put any kind of emphasis or command on baptism. He would have just said something along the lines that one must join a scripture believing church or profess their faith in him to show thier intent.I'm part of Christ's Church of believers and I'm not baptized. Baptism only gets one wet and shows their intent to be a believer. No magical powers in the water.
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And you said..."Do you really believe that? Thats amazing. The current RCC bears absolutly no resemblance to the 1st century church.
You have got to be kidding? You actually believe that as they had their simple fellowship in homes in the 1st century, there were Catholic masses taking place?"Apparently you have not been to Mass in a while. Read much St. Justin Martyr?"
And you said..."No. Absolutly not. We do not embrace one denomination among so many in order to embrace Christ.
I know."There are no demoninations in Christ's Church, so in that respect, you are correct."
No, there are assemblies that have Gods revelation, the scriptures. And there are others who choose to ignore Gods revelation in order to maintain their man made traditions that God has nothing to do with."There is Christ's Church, and there are those assemblies that have an imcomplete revelation (Scripture alone)."
And you said..."To embrace Jesus Christ we embrace Jesus Christ!"
You believe you recieve Christ by eating Him? Sorry, but we recieve Christ by faith."I'll be doing that in the Eucharistic celebration tonight. Praise God!"
And you said..."I recieved Christ through faith alone...laying face down in that bed drowning in my own tears."
Agreed. There does not have to be an emotional response like mine."As long as you don't see the emotional response as necessary. Receiving Christ is not an experience of emotion, but of Spirit."
And you said..."And "the Church", from a biblical perspective, is nothing but all born again people. Period."
Depends on what you mean by "baptised". If you mean "Spirit" baptism, you are 100% correct. All are Spirit baptised into the body of Christ at the instant of their entering into saving faith.(and that is not to be confused with the optional "baptism of the Holy Spirit", such as is evidenced by the gift of tongues. Some never do experience that, yet are still saved of course.)"Which is why all Baptized persons are implicitly but not explicitly part of Christ's Church."
And you said..."It was probably 2 or 3 months later when God lead me to a place where many of His born again people gather for corporate worship and fellowship. But I certainly was not added to "the church" when I started fellowshipping there."
Based on my experience dealing with catholics, I am going to assume you mean water baptism. On that assumption..."And no Catholic says you become "part of the Church" when you are added to a "membership record." You become part of Christ's Church at your Baptism."