emergent church

It is interesting that the emerging "post-modern" generation is harshly condemned by those older, from the "modern" generation; as if that generation is closer to being like the New Testament church's generation. HA! I have the feeling that if the leaders of the New Testament church could set foot in a church set in the 1950s/1960s they would find many things to criticize. The KJV Only/Fundamentalist/Suit & Tie/Choir Robe/Sunday School Quarterly/Show-up-for-2-hours-and-go-home style is hardly the NT model we base the church off of.

Your particular generation is not the measuring stick we use for a Biblical church.

 

Well said...I also understand the problems you raised about theology. There are just as many "emerging" churches that aren't changing theology as there are churches that are re-writing what the Bible says. These churches should not be lumped with the Brian Mclarens and the Tony Jones. There is real authentic spiritual transformation happening, and many from the previous generation don't like it because it doesnt' fit their mold. By mold, I mean preferences.

 

Ha! And by "mold" I thought you meant that green fuzzy stuff that grows on things that ..., well, you know what I thought! :laugh:

The problem with some of us (I include myself) is we think mold looks good on us.

 

Great post and the thoughts behind it certainly echo my own. I am beginning to think that the fundamental problem with our thinking is that we have an expectataion that a lost 21 yr old male were to drive by our church buildings are going to stop in.

I have begun to connect some dots in my own thinking that the whole concept of "Come Join Us!" that we see on church marquees and signs are actually what we think and believe (which actually does more to "reach" other churches' members than the lost). We pattern our corporate worship after the crusades and tent revivals of old and actually think that lost people will show up. While that may have been true of generations past, it isn't the reality of today.

The idea that evangelism takes place in corproate worship is evidenced by church members inviting their lost friends to worship rather than effectively communicate Truth to them in the context of the relationship. If we are going to truly embrace NT church identity, the "Come Join Us" mentality must be put down and replaced by GO and FIND!

Blessings to you sir!

Peter

 

Emerging Church Alert​

The following is a fact sheet that summarizes some of the major characteristics of the Emerging Church movement and the direction it is headed. Beneath the fact sheet, you can either listen to or read the transcript of a recent interview with Brian McLaren, prominent promoter and leader of the Emerging Church movement. Every sincere Bible believing Christian needs to be aware of what is happening and what role the Emerging Church movement plays in the last days apostasy that the Bible foretells.​

FACTS TO KNOW ABOUT CURRENT TRENDS HAPPENING IN THE NAME OF CHRIST THAT ARE UNDERMINING THE AUTHORITY OF SCRIPTURE AND LEADING TOWARDS ​

"THE EMERGING CHURCH"​

• Scripture is no longer the ultimate authority for many well know leaders of the new evangelicalism.
• The gospel of Jesus Christ is being replaced by humanistic methods that promote church growth and a social gospel.
• There is more and more emphasis on “what’s in it for me” in the “here and now”, and less and less concern regarding the warnings of scripture regarding the imminent return of Jesus and a coming judgment ahead for planet earth.
• More and more Christian leaders are looking for a kingdom of God to be established here on earth by human effort and deny that Jesus Christ will rule and reign in a literal millennial period that is to come.
• Many bridges are being established that lead in the direction of unity with the Roman Catholic Church.
• An experiential mystical form of Christianity is being promoted to attract and reach the postmodern generation called the “Emerging Church.
• We are being told that Christianity needs to be re-invented in order to provide meaning for this generation.
• Christianity is being dumbed-down as the Word of God comes under attack and images and sensual experiences are being promoted as the key to experiencing God.
• In order to re-invent Christianity we are told we need to go back to the past and find out what kinds of experiences were successful to attract people to Christianity. These experiences include icons, candles, incense, liturgy and the sacraments, particularly the sacrament of the Eucharist.
• Many church leaders are beginning to consider that the Reformation went too far. They are reexamining the claims of the “Church fathers” that communion is more than a symbol and for remembrance and that Jesus actually becomes present in the communion wafer.
• There is a growing trend towards an ecumenical unity for the cause of world peace that claims there are many ways to God and that Jesus Christ is not the only way.

Brian McLaren is viewed by many as a key leader of the Emerging Church Movement. The following interviews and the article will explain McLaren's position on "hell" and "homosexuality".
Interview with Brian McLaren by Leif Hansen (McLaren's Position on Hell)
Listen to Part 1 (Using Windows Media Player or Real Player)
Listen to Part 2 (Using Windows Media Player or Real Player)
Transcript of the interview
These interviews were conducted by Leif Hansen Of The Bleeding Purple Podcast. Part 1 of Brian McLaren's interview was on Sunday January 8, 2006 and Part 2 was on Thursday January 12, 2006. Direct links to the original interviews are below.
Part 1 - http://bleedingpurplepodcast.blogspot.com/2006/01/brian-mclaren-interview-part-i.html
Part 2 - http://bleedingpurplepodcast.blogspot.com/2006/01/interview-with-brian-mclaren-part-ii.html

Article by Brian McLaren (Mclaren's Position on Homosexuality)

http://www.understandthetimes.org/eca.shtml

 

Linda,

I totally agree with your post and warnings about the EMERGENT church...as in emergantvillage.com, as in Brian Mclaren. However, many churches that would be characterized as EMERGING churches are accused of holding to the same thoughts as the EMERGENT church. Even your article says that Mclaren is only "viewed by many" as the leader....I doubt it is as many as that statement leads on to. He is also viewed by some emerging leaders that completely disagree with him. I know that name games are silly, but unfortunately its true. Emerging churches are becoming the most effective in reaching people. My church would be classified as emerging. Not because we call ourselves that, but because when you see how we function, what we do, the methods we use to reach people, it is not a traditional church. We have not sacrificed theology, nor begun teaching heresy. We have broken ourselves from useless traditions that have succeeded in only pushing people from the Gospel. I trust that you would be moved to see people listening to the Bible's message because it is not coming from a man in a suit, with a choir in robes, while sitting in a pew next to people dressed exactly alike. EMERGING from one generation to the next is not heresy. It would be wise if people would understand to be cautious to judge a church as heretical just because it is labeled EMERGING.

 

"The main dangers in this life are the people who want to change everything - or nothing." - Nancy Astor (1879-1964)

How true, and how amazing that this was spoken before my generation was born (can't speak for the rest of you). :thumbs:

This is exactly how I see the situation. The two greatest hindrances to the Gospel and Truth today are those who want to change nothing and those who want to change everything!

Many pastors and missionaries of my age group in my small circle of friends are seriously re-evaluating things.

On the one hand you have the typical emerging church which has deeper theological issues and I believe is wrong. But on the other hand you have the "Don't move that chair its always been there" mentality of others.

With several I have been discussing change and methodology. We find ourselves questioning much of what is taken for granted, and perhaps we question too much because in certain circles we are not permitted to ask any questions at all.

The one extreme has invited the world into their churches, and I mean world in the sense of carnal, not in the sense of evangelically. They see growth, but growth toward what?

On the other extreme we see decline and death. But nothing is allowed to change and the reason for decline is not because of errors in methodology, but because we're in the end times and decline is just what is meant to happen (or so they say).

Change must occur, but because it has not been allowed in some quarters it has gone too far.

Extremes seem to be the flavour of the day and all the while truth, evangelism and those who follow us are all suffering the consequences.

 

"Traditional" churches do not have a monopoly on "being in a rut." Any church, traditional or contemporary, can do the same things every week (respectively) hoping that someone will drop in to get saved. Or, any church, traditional or contemporary, can be active in the community making things better for people in need and drawing in new members because people see the church putting its faith into action.

Tim Reynolds (I'll never be called "tiny".)

 

There's a lot of wisdom in your comments, Peter. Why would we assume that any lost person really wants to do the same things believers do, including go to church? Yet, that's the mindset of many churches--get them in the church so we can preach to them. That's not the Great Commission.

The difference between the older traditional churches and the PDF, seeker-senstive church is a matter of degree. Both want the same thing--to attract yuppies with children. We can debate methods, strategies, etc., but what we ought to be talking about is whether "come" should be the goal at all.

 

prayer
i lead a song
announcements
i lead another song
"responsive readings"--we're probably the last church still doing this
I lead the third song
the offering is collect
doxology
sermon
i lead the last song which has to be about coming to christ or confessing to christ...etc
closing prayer
we're dismissed (potluck near the end of the month)

the children go to childrens church whenever the leaders get here....but since they bring mostly all the children, it's not much of a hassle...

other set customs are only singing 3 verses to ANY song....as everyone but me is over 40, I'm glad if their throats can handle one verse....

 

Emergent does not just mean doing church a different or new way - it is much more than that.

Although I think some of the Emergents have valid points and we should listen to and consider those, I'm afraid that what is really influencing the church is the bad side of the Emergent movement -- inclusivism, a condescension toward doctrine, and adopting Roman Catholic practices, among other things. The emphasis on experience over objective truth is another.

If you look at the upcoming Nat'l Pastors Convention, where McLaren and several Emergents are presenting, you will see a range of interesting things being offered, such as the enneagram, which is an occult process first formulated in anthroposophy by a follower of Gurdjieff. This is something used in the New Age. This is the kind of thing God delivered me from and here they are doing it at a pastor's conference.

What's next? Zodiac signs?

Remember that the big problem of God's people in the OT was religious syncretism, as it was in the early church with the Gnostics. I see a New Age syncretism developing, but it's very subtle.

I think we ignore the bad side of the Emergent movement at our own risk.

 

I have no idea what emergent means.

 

Emergent seems to want to look at the Bible through the lens of our culture instead of looking at our culture through the lens of the Bible.

Emergent is just another step and progression away from Biblical theology...away from a God-centered soteriology to a man-centered one. Yes, emergent makes all the sense in the world (along with the PDC/PDL) if God is sitting up there in heaven "cheering us on" and where He just hopes that we make the "decision" to follow Him.

 

So is the flip side to just sit at home watching day-time television because God's going to work it out anyway?

Not looking to be spiteful, I'm probably quite close to believing the same as you concerning methodology etc.