emergent church

Quote: "So is the flip side to just sit at home watching day-time television because God's going to work it out anyway?"

Well...Yes He is going to work it out, but No....we are called to preach the gospel. We are commanded to go. But we must underestand that:

1. faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God
2. No one comes to Jesus unless the Father has enabled him to do so
3. ALL that the Father gives to Jesus WILL COME to Him

So we must preach the word and let the Holy Spirit convert the sinner.

 

Hello Jensen, I haven't seen you around. New or just missed each other? Looks like some good advice you're handing out.

Tiny: I noticed your comment about churches being in a rut. You are quite right to say that ruts develope no matter what methodism you apply to your services. That's why you must endevour to make Jesus and His word the central focus of worship. Boring or not, if it's centered on Christ, and not the periphrials, it will be effective.

 

boom! ...

 

The church I serve in was planted about a year ago. It seems to me that churches are labeled in their methods and values. Methods being the obvious characteristic. Aesthetics are different than traditional churches, creating a much different environment than a traditional church setting. We even have an espresso machine that we use to make drinks before church!! Emerging churches also tend to introduce the Arts more, allowing for a lot of creativity with worship and looks. As far as values, one huge value with emerging churches is community. Focusing on each believer as a member of God's family that have individual journeys (or, "walks with God"), but each journey is unique and integral to the body of Christ as a whole. Community emphasized so heavily because many people have felt the cold shoulder of lack of acceptance in traditional churches. Many feel that if you don't define God the same way, vote the same way, dress the same way, don't box things up exactly the way the church does, than you are not accepted. Many emerging churches DO NOT re-define doctrine or theology, but allow for people to question and explore together. If you sat in my church you would hear clear Biblical teaching. People will listen if you let them explore and question. This doesn't mean accepting unbiblical answers, but provide those answers through community and relationships. It has become typical of traditional churches to reject the sort of wonderment and exploration of unbelievers because they won't immediately adhere to their particular views. This could include political, Bible translation, tatoos, drinking, etc. This does not include issues such as the Virgin birth, authority of Scripture, divinity of Christ, etc. However, it allows people to feel free to explore, but the difference is that we love them. GENUINELY LOVE them, and they experience the sense of freedom and passion and purpose in the life of a believer. There have been a handful of new believers now who had horrible experiences with churches in the past, but they get it now. They understand and have faith in what was previously poorly communicated to them. One guy is so raw in his faith, you need to be careful to give him a microphone because of the language that could slip through! Emerging churches are reaching people traditional churches won't. Don't lump what is called an "emerging" church with those from emergantvillage. It shows lack of understanding.

 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/february/11.35.html :smilewinkgrin:

 

As an educated person I enjoyed the article. But it did seem somewhat out of reach of the average individual.

I couldn't help thinking of several Scripture as I've read through this thread. As Baptist our Scripture should be final authority/guide,admonishing, etc.

As to the "humdrum" of doing the same thing over and over again:

Numbers 11

4 And the mixt multitude that was among them fell a lusting: and the children of Israel also wept again, and said, Who shall give us flesh to eat?
5 We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlick:
6 But now our soul is dried away: there is nothing at all, beside this manna, before our eyes.​

Labels or what we call ourselves mean little or nothing in terms of priorities. What does Christ Himself think of us and call us? Although works are important within the sphere of true Christianity:​

Revelation 3
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.​

As to methods:​

1 John 2
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.​

I think we must remember that whatever faddish phase this present world passes through (Including "postmodernism") it will all eventually go up in smoke...​

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.​

Yes, it's a shock to many of us that we won't be able to surf the net or get a latte in heaven, but there will be something better...​

Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.​

Anyway, this is not so much an admonishment but a reminder.

Revelation 22
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

HankD
​

 

As an educated person I enjoyed the article. But it did seem somewhat out of reach of the average individual.

I couldn't help thinking of several Scripture as I've read through this thread. As Baptist our Scripture should be final authority/guide,admonishing, etc.

As to the "humdrum" of doing the same thing over and over again:

Numbers 11

4 And the mixt multitude that was among them fell a lusting: and the children of Israel also wept again, and said, Who shall give us flesh to eat?
5 We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlick:
6 But now our soul is dried away: there is nothing at all, beside this manna, before our eyes.​

Labels or what we call ourselves mean little or nothing in terms of priorities. What does Christ Himself think of us and call us? Although works are important within the sphere of true Christianity:​

Revelation 3
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.​

As to methods:​

1 John 2
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.​

I think we must remember that whatever faddish phase this present world passes through (Including "postmodernism") it will all eventually go up in smoke...​

2 Peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.​

Yes, it's a shock to many of us that we won't be able to surf the net or get a latte in heaven, but there will be something better...​

Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.​

Anyway, this is not so much an admonishment but a reminder.

Revelation 22
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

HankD​

 

The church emerged 2000 years ago and doesn't need to reemerge today. The EC is most certainly more than methodology it is very much theological to use the term loosely. Brian McLaren denies a literal judgement of God. This creates a serious problem for if there is no literal judgement then their is no literal cross. If the cross doesnt exist then all of christianity is false. If it somehow does exist but there is still no literal judgment then how cruel to send His only Son to die there.

The methodology of the EC is problematic. It is anti-authority, therefore rebellious. It is remeniscient of Numbers 16.

The draw of the EC by Baptists or any other denomination is not evidence of a move of God. Just because goats transfer from one place to another doesnt make them sheep. Numbers are never evidence of success and should never be the measuring stick to measure it. The only measuring stick to measure success we should use is the Word of God.

 

mars hill church is emergent - mark driscoll (sp?)

donald miller (the one who had the interview on tv - the one who didn't know what it meant to be a christian so he spread out his explanation and made no sense out of it) - the guy who wrote Blue Like Jazz etc.

that's all i know about it

 

Mark Driscoll??? If you are referring to the pastor of Mars Hill... Rob Bell is the pastor of Mars Hill in Michigan. I wouldnt neceesarily lump them into the Emerging Church Movement. Just because they are doing things that some may view as outside the box doesn't necessarily put them there. They are doing some great things in their community and others should model some of that.

 

Rob Bell

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Will the Next Billy Graham be a Mystic?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans- serif]I[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans- serif]n a recent Chicago Sun-Times article, the headline reads, "The Next Billy Graham?" At first glance, someone like Rick Warren or Luis Palau (both of whom have been mentioned to take the place of Graham), might come to mind. But neither of those names was mentioned in the article. Instead, a popular emerging church leader, Rob Bell, was named as the possible replacement. While that may seem like a far-fetched notion to many, the article quotes emerging leader Brian McLaren as saying it "could very well be true."
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans- serif]
Bell, a graduate of Wheaton College (the same as Billy Graham), is the producer for short films called Noomas. His newest film, called "Breathe," is currently in production:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans- serif]

"Each day we take around 26,000 breaths," Bell begins ... "Our breathing should come from our stomach, not our chest." [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans- serif]

Doesn't sound like anything to be too alarmed about, right? Breathing ... we all do it to survive. But it may be time to take a serious look at Rob Bell's spirituality, especially in light of some seeing him as the next Billy Graham.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans- serif]

In a 2004 Christianity Today article titled [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans- serif]Emergent Mystique, Bell (pastor of Mars Hill of Michigan) said, "We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life." What does Bell mean by "an Eastern religion"? It sounds a lot like Thomas Merton who, while he considered himself a Christian, said he was impregnated with Sufism (Islamic mysticism). As with most emergent and contemplative leaders, the Christianity of the Bible is not enough for them, and there is one main reason it isn't ... meditation. Since the Bible lacks any instruction on a self- induced mystical trance, other than condemning it in the Old Testament, contemplatives must turn to Eastern religious techniques adopted by Catholic mystics such as Thomas Merton or Basil Pennington, who have grasped onto Hindu style meditation or latched onto New Age mystics. You may think this is an outlandish statement, but on March 19th 2006 (audio) Bell did just that. He invited a Dominican sister from the Dominican Center at Marywood in Michigan to speak at a church service at Mars Hill. The Dominican Center is a "Spirituality center," which offers a wide variety of contemplative opportunities, including Reiki, a Spiritual Formation program, a Spiritual Director program, labyrinths, Celtic Spirituality, enneagrams1[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]and much more.[/FONT]

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/billygraham.htm

 

That's a different Mars Hill - Mark Driscoll is pastor of Mars Hill in Seattle. His church is also doing some great things, but he catches a lot of flack for his unorthodox behavior. Some of it is deserved and some is not, IMO.

 

I too have used Nooma and can atest to its viability and orthodoxy.

And yes... Christianity is an eastern religion.

 

Rob Bell and the Emergent Church movement

Here is some more information about Rob Bell and what he believes and teaches. I am looking into the NOOMAS thing--and what I've read up to this point, is as far removed from Biblical Christianity as east is from the west.

This Emergent/Emerging Church movement is filled with "Eastern Mysticism" and the teachings of "mystics", like Thomas Merton, Henri Nouwen, etc. are coming into the church (like "wolves in sheep's clothing").

And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. (Luke 21:8)

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. (Acts 20:29-30)

 

So there's what your problem is... you try anything. Rock, New Bibles (can they really qualify as Bibles?), etc..

Lessee now, yer not too far from Kentucky... ya up to trying rattlesnakes?

 

Well, Moses had some measure of success with snakes...