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Emerging Church Videos

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donnA

Active Member
So Mr. seeker sensative mega church guy in the hawaiian shirt is paying people cash to go to his church?
 
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skypair

Active Member
donnA said:
So Mr. seeker sensative mega church guy in the hawaiian shirt is paying people cash to go to his church?
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More in the form of Joel Osteen's "prosperity gospel." In fact, I think that circular church in one of the scenes might be outside his converted Houston Rockets church building. Anybody else recognize it?

skypair
 
Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
Willow Creek is leaning towards contemplative, Catholic and Emerging sprituality. This is from someone very familiar with Willow Creek:
http://midwestoutreach.org/blogs/60/willow-creek-emerging-toward-rome

This is from an Emerging blog that is happy to see what they believe is Willow Creek turning emergent:
http://jonathanbrink.com/2007/09/21/is-willow-creek-going-emerging/

Also see
http://watcherslamp.blogspot.com/2007/03/two-witnesses-emerging-saddleback.html

I don't the danger is Seeker Sensitive - it's the influence of the Emerging movement that is bringing in mysticism and Roman Catholic type thinking. The praise of Roman Catholic mystics is rife among Emergents and now a growing number of evangelicals. Yet many of these mystics did not have sound theology and some were even outside of historical Christian worldviews.
 
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skypair

Active Member
Marcia said:
I don't see the danger in Seeker Sensitive - it's the influence of the Emerging movement that is bringing in mysticism and Roman Catholic type thinking. The praise of Roman Catholic mystics is rife among Emergents and now a growing number of evangelicals. Yet many of these mystics did not have sound theology and some were even outside of historical Christian worldviews.
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Thank you, Marcia, for those links. I think the key issue that Emergent and Seeker churches have in common is that they ASSUME that those who come in are saved. The church of AC will do the same. Do you see this?

I, too, thought the seeker/emergent pattern was innocuous. Just make the gospel the "centerpiece," right? What's wrong with wanting outsiders to come into your church?

The key is "on what terms are you going to accept them?" Is this a social/community relationship or a God relationship we're after? Look at the second video -- Hybels admitting "no spiritual growth." Why? Maybe they weren't SAVED, eh?

Ya know who has a seeker friendly "hook?" The 7th Day Adventists! Have you ever been to one of their "End Times" week-long revivals? I've been. Pretty compelling! "Ear-tickling!" No gospel (as I recall) -- just "bait."

skypair
 
Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
skypair said:
Thank you, Marcia, for those links.
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You're welcome!

I think the key issue that Emergent and Seeker churches have in common is that they ASSUME that those who come in are saved. The church of AC will do the same. Do you see this?
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I don't think that is true of Seeker churches, that is why they are called "seeker" churches. They are trying to lure "seekers" not believers. I don't think it's true of the Emergent churches either, since they are trying to draw unchurched and/or unbelievers.

There is little in common with Emergent and Seeker senstive in terms of style and who they are trying to attract.

I, too, thought the seeker/emergent pattern was innocuous. Just make the gospel the "centerpiece," right? What's wrong with wanting outsiders to come into your church?

The key is "on what terms are you going to accept them?" Is this a social/community relationship or a God relationship we're after? Look at the second video -- Hybels admitting "no spiritual growth." Why? Maybe they weren't SAVED, eh?
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I don't know about that. I think that there were believers there but that the main problem might have been there was no hardcore Bible teaching or discipleship. It was shallow Christianity.


Ya know who has a seeker friendly "hook?" The 7th Day Adventists! Have you ever been to one of their "End Times" week-long revivals? I've been. Pretty compelling! "Ear-tickling!" No gospel (as I recall) -- just "bait."
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That's true - they are good at luring people under false pretenses, at least in terms of their TV programs and some of their media material. But individually, they are extremely aggressive trying to get Christians to believe in their Sabbath doctrine and soul sleep. I've been pursued by SDAs over the years trying to get me on board with their beliefs. I used to respond and try to show them the errors they have. Now, I won't bother at all to discuss things with them. It's a waste of my time.
 
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skypair

Active Member
Marcia said:
I don't think that is true of Seeker churches, that is why they are called "seeker" churches. They are trying to lure "seekers" not believers.
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Good point, Marcia. But here's where I see a "connection" (a word my church uses all the time) -- in the Augustinian/Calvinism model, no one "seeks" God EXCEPT those who are "regenerate." That's something to think about anyway depending on where you think this "emergent" movement came from.

I don't think it's true of the Emergent churches either, since they are trying to draw unchurched and/or unbelievers.
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This is where my church is "on the path." We have not gone, yet, into full "emergent" mode of abandoning the gospel and the Bible. What we ARE doing is "making a bridge" (Emergent keyword), "offering a connection," introducing a few Willow Creek materials, holding "Men's Fraternity" where we study "pop psychology's" answers to living the abundant life, etc. And we are a megachurch.

I don't know about that. I think that there were believers there but that the main problem might have been there was no hardcore Bible teaching or discipleship. It was shallow Christianity.
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That's what Hybels admits in the second video above.

I got a "whiff" of this movement while watching Jack Van Impe in which he characterized Hybels and those like him as "Preaching sermon-ettes and making Christian-ettes!"

skypair
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Marcia

Marcia

Active Member
skypair said:
Good point, Marcia. But here's where I see a "connection" (a word my church uses all the time) -- in the Augustinian/Calvinism model, no one "seeks" God EXCEPT those who are "regenerate." That's something to think about anyway depending on where you think this "emergent" movement came from.
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Well, I'm not sure there is a connection. Seeker sensitive churches are not Calvinist or non-Calvinist. I think that issue is irrelevant to them from what I know. The term "seeker" is used a lot in the Christian community to mean people seeking spiritual answers via many avenues.


This is where my church is "on the path." We have not gone, yet, into full "emergent" mode of abandoning the gospel and the Bible. What we ARE doing is "making a bridge" (Emergent keyword), "offering a connection," introducing a few Willow Creek materials, holding "Men's Fraternity" where we study "pop psychology's" answers to living the abundant life, etc. And we are a megachurch.
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So your church is leaning toward being emerging?


That's what Hybels admits in the second video above.
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Unfortunately, they diagoned the problem but are giving the wrong prescription for it.


I got a "whiff" of this movement while watching Jack Van Impe in which he characterized Hybels and those like him as "Preaching sermon-ettes and making Christian-ettes!"
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Well, bless his little ol' headline seeking heart! I am not a fan of Van Impe's healdine prophecy stuff, but this statement is right on.
 
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skypair

Active Member
Marcia said:
So your church is leaning toward being emerging?
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Let me give you another example:

In Men's Fraternity we are studying "The Great Adventure" (AKA: life). We are being told to take our design (past), our pursuits (present), and our dreams (future) and write up a "mission statement" that includes adventure in each area of our lives (family, work, man-sized adventure, spiritual adventure).

OK, so do you recognize that? It's "humanism!" Paul excoriated the CARNAL Christians in Corinth for thinking that way. Your life is not your own ... you are bought with a price! That planning is something you did before you were saved!

This is not going to lead to spiritual Christian growth but either to a) frustration when your plans cannot be achieved or b) disappointment that their achievement is so fleeting and empty!

skypair
 
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skypair

Active Member
sag38 said:
Sky, I bet they love you at the Men's Fraternity meetings.
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They do. I don't get up and outright denounce the syllabus or anything. But I have been "corresponding" with the staff letting them know of my concerns. Meanwhile, we're pretty much in the "new church hunting" mode. :tear:

skypair
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
skypair said:
Let me give you another example:

In Men's Fraternity we are studying "The Great Adventure" (AKA: life). We are being told to take our design (past), our pursuits (present), and our dreams (future) and write up a "mission statement" that includes adventure in each area of our lives (family, work, man-sized adventure, spiritual adventure).

OK, so do you recognize that? It's "humanism!" Paul excoriated the CARNAL Christians in Corinth for thinking that way. Your life is not your own ... you are bought with a price! That planning is something you did before you were saved!

This is not going to lead to spiritual Christian growth but either to a) frustration when your plans cannot be achieved or b) disappointment that their achievement is so fleeting and empty!

skypair
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This video addresses that:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwbps9k5Dj0
 
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givengrace

New Member
skypair said:
Somehow I lost track of the original thread where this should go along with "Seeker-Friendly, Mega Church Guy."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb9DF16Fx8k

Anyway, more information on the trend here from John Hybels church Willow Creek and from John MacArthur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zrj1HfxVMQ&NR=1

PART 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE-LIpxiorg&NR=1


From Way Of The Master Radio
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I'm Sorry but I'm not following what your tring to say as to Hybels church. The Church I recentlly left (to minister else where) was a member of the Willow Creek asso.
 
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skypair

Active Member
givengrace said:
I'm Sorry but I'm not following what your tring to say as to Hybels church. The Church I recentlly left (to minister else where) was a member of the Willow Creek asso.
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Sorry. For fear of "beating a dead horse," I didn't reiterate the story of Bill Hybel's apology that I had posted elsewhere. You heard part of it on PART 1 -- the middle youtube excerpt.

Basically, he apologized because all that he had brought into the church and who even joined SGF's had, according to the church's own survey, not grown one iota spiritually! His "system" was good for bringing people into the "net" but he couldn't bring them to the "shore." Does this mean a lot of them have the "appearance" of salvation without the "substance?" I think even he is unsure of the answer to that question.

skypair
 
Gold Dragon

Gold Dragon

Well-Known Member
skypair said:
Basically, he apologized because all that he had brought into the church and who even joined SGF's had, according to the church's own survey, not grown one iota spiritually! His "system" was good for bringing people into the "net" but he couldn't bring them to the "shore." Does this mean a lot of them have the "appearance" of salvation without the "substance?" I think even he is unsure of the answer to that question.
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Here is a blog entry by Willowcreek executive pastor Greg Hawkins who co-wrote the book Reveal: Where are you?.

Reveal Blog

October 26, 2007
The Truth About REVEAL

Friends,

I’m thrilled to see the high level of interest and energy behind the blogosphere comments about REVEAL. But I’ve read enough postings to think that it might be helpful to provide a few facts on three issues that keep coming up. Trust me. I’m not into “spin control” here. I just want to fill in some gaps.

1. It’s Not About Willow

* REVEAL’s findings are based on thirty churches besides Willow. In all thirty churches, we’ve found the six segments of REVEAL’s spiritual continuum, including the Stalled and Dissatisfied segments. And these churches aren’t all Willow clones. We’ve surveyed traditional Bible churches, mainline denominations, African-American churches and churches representing a wide range of geographies and sizes. Right now we’re fielding the survey to 500 additional churches, including 100 international churches. So, while REVEAL was born out of a Willow research project in 2004, the findings are not exclusive to Willow Creek.

2. Willow Repents?

* The Leadership Journal blog started with this question, and the answer is NO. Repenting, in my mind, deals with confessing sin. There is absolutely no sin involved in this deal. Just good, old fashion learning. What you are seeing is a set of leaders coming to grips with some new facts and deciding to do something about it. This is nothing new for us here at Willow. We are passionately committed to learning. Redeeming this broken world through the love and power of Jesus Christ is just too important for us not to be in a constant state of learning. We’ve always been a church in motion and REVEAL is just another example of Willow trying to be open to God’s design for this local church.

3. Is Willow Re-thinking its Seeker Focus?

* Simple answer – NO. Hybels would say that Willow is not just seeker-focused. We are seeker-obsessed. The power of REVEAL’s insights for our seeker strategy is the evangelistic strength uncovered in the more mature segments. If we can serve them better, the evangelistic potential is enormous, based on our findings.

I hope this was helpful. In any event, I’m enjoying following the dialogue. Keep it up! And let me know if you have any questions you’d like me to address.

Greg Hawkins
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skypair

Active Member
Gold Dragon said:
Here is a blog entry by Willowcreek executive pastor Greg Hawkins who co-wrote the book Reveal: Where are you?.
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Thank you, Golden. I probably should now go to the website and see what they intend to do to correct the situation -- and whether they are going to take that information to churches who already practice their "paradigm" of seeker-centered worship.

skypair
 
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