End times thoughts - continued

[1689Dave]

There has been no Man of sin yet to appear, as the Second Coming event would happen during that time!

John said there were already many antichrists in his day. And if you look for what the Beast and his mark represent, he's been here ever since the first century. The problem is, you look for the symbol to appear instead of what it represents.

 

[1689Dave]

Is not the rapture either before the Second Coming, or is actually the Second Coming ?

It follows the resurrection on the last day.

 

[Yeshua1]

There will be a final one, who will be slain by the Lord jesus when he returns!

 

[1689Dave]

There will be a final one, who will be slain by the Lord jesus when he returns!

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28–29)

Note a resurrection of the Just, and another resurrection of the unjust. All in the same hour.

 

[Yeshua1]

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28–29)

Note a resurrection of the Just, and another resurrection of the unjust. All in the same hour.

Has that happened yet?

 

[1689Dave]

Has that happened yet?

It happens on the last day.

 

[Yeshua1]

It happens on the last day.

When does jesus reign here, and then turns the Kingdom in the end over to the Father>

 

[1689Dave]

When does jesus reign here, and then turns the Kingdom in the end over to the Father>

Presently. He must reign until he destroys the last enemy - death. This happens at the resurrection on the last day.

 

[Yeshua1]

Presently. He must reign until he destroys the last enemy - death. This happens at the resurrection on the last day.

He is not reigning right now on earth, as Satan ids the god of this Kingdom age, as Jesus reigns when His Kingdom comes and takes out all other Kingdomes here!

 

[1689Dave]

He is not reigning right now on earth, as Satan ids the god of this Kingdom age, as Jesus reigns when His Kingdom comes and takes out all other Kingdomes here!

Satan is a liar. But he is presently bound by the Truth made known in the gospel. But towards the end Jesus asks if he shall find faith on earth? Because Satan will be loosed as the gospel falls on deaf ears, and the post Christian era will take place with their attacks on the church, evolution, atheistic science, etc., just before the Lord returns.

 

[atpollard]

How many "last day" are there?

• [John 6:39-40, 44, 54 NASB] 39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." ... 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. ... 54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
• [John 11:24 NASB] 24 Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."
• [John 12:48 NASB] 48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

If there is only one 'last day' (since 'last' implies no more after that) and there is both a 'raising up' and a 'judgement' on the last day, then do these verses also apply to this 'last day'?

• [1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 NASB] 13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of [the] archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
  
• [Acts 1:9-11 NASB] 9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11 They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."
• [John 14:2-3 NASB] 2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, [there] you may be also.
• [1Co 15:50-54 NASB] 50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
• [Mathew 25:31-34, 41, 46 NASB] 31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. ... 41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; ... 46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

I cannot help but wonder if the gathering in the air of 1 Thessalonians 4 is the separation of sheep from goats of Matthew 25.

 

[agedman]

If flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom, then only saints in glorified bodies make up the millennium. So, Satan rallies Gog and Magog from among the saints in glorified bodies to fight against the rest of the saints in glorified bodies according to your scheme. This alone should send you looking for a new theory.

Wow, do you not know there is a difference between heaven and earth?

The kingdom of heaven is that of heaven.

Do you not know the Lord prayed "THY Kingdom come..." Why would such a statement be made about the will on earth being done EXACTLY as it is done in heaven, if such were not yet a promise to be fulfilled.



The millennial reign is that of the promised earthly reign given to the ancients of old.

This is basic understanding of Scriptures, yet you seem to stumble looking for something other than the factual and physical realization of the millennial reign.

Just as the people of Noah didn't understand, the Lord said, the folks of the last days would be given a strong delusion that they not understand, too.

Where did you get the thinking that only saints in glorified bodies enter the millennium. There is not a single Scripture to support such thinking as revealed in the prophets nor the Apostles, much less the Lord Jesus Christ.

In particular such isn't what is revealed in the last 5 chapters of the Revelation.

 

[Yeshua1]

How many "last day" are there?

• [John 6:39-40, 44, 54 NASB] 39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." ... 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. ... 54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
• [John 11:24 NASB] 24 Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."
• [John 12:48 NASB] 48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

If there is only one 'last day' (since 'last' implies no more after that) and there is both a 'raising up' and a 'judgement' on the last day, then do these verses also apply to this 'last day'?

• [1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 NASB] 13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of [the] archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
  
• [Acts 1:9-11 NASB] 9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11 They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."
• [John 14:2-3 NASB] 2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, [there] you may be also.
• [1Co 15:50-54 NASB] 50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
• [Mathew 25:31-34, 41, 46 NASB] 31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. ... 41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; ... 46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

I cannot help but wonder if the gathering in the air of 1 Thessalonians 4 is the separation of sheep from goats of Matthew 25.

Wonder if there are many aspects to the last days event, as there seems to be more involved than just Jesus comes back, boom eternal state ushered in!

 

[1689Dave]

Wow, do you not know there is a difference between heaven and earth?

The kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are the same.

“From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 4:17)
“And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” (Mark 1:15)

 

[Yeshua1]

The kingdom was present in the person of Jesus, and now in His saved here, but there is coming a time when all the earth will be under that Kingdom!

 

[1689Dave]

The kingdom was present in the person of Jesus, and now in His saved here, but there is coming a time when all the earth will be under that Kingdom!

In the new heavens and earth.

 

[atpollard]

Wonder if there are many aspects to the last days event, as there seems to be more involved than just Jesus comes back, boom eternal state ushered in!

Outside of the 'interpretations' read into Revelations and Daniel?
Do you have 'more involved' from the Gospels and non-Revelations New Testement?

 

[Yeshua1]

In the new heavens and earth.

Jesus is to reign,and he is not doing that right now..
Not reigning in the sense no longer permitting evil and sin to exist on earth...

 

[agedman]

How can a physical chain bind Satan who is spirit? John says the serpent is the symbol for Satan.

In what manner is it to be taken as a "Physical chain?"

Where does John even consider that such is "physical" in the sense of human developed chain?

Do you know deoxyribonucleic acid is considered a "chain."

There are all manner of "chains" that are not that which shackles humans, yet are considered chains.

So, is it so irrational to suggest that John used "chain" in the same manner, as one shackled, bound and removed as to be hindered from influence of others.

To take the events as not factual is mere rationalization techniques that apply human constraints to that which is Scriptures.

Same problem that Noah faced when proclaiming rain.

 

[Yeshua1]

The chain represent s aliteral action of God binding Satan and putting Him under imprisonment for 1000 years.