England & the USA

[prophecynut]

"It's all about CONTEXT."

Agree, the context is the Millennium when David's throne will be restored.

Psalm 89:36 - David's line will continue forever.

38 - "But you (God) have rejected" David's throne.

39 - "You have renounced the covenant."

44 - "You have put an end to his splendor and cast his throne to the ground."

Eze. 21:26 - David's crown removed.

28- David's crown "will not be restored until (Jesus) comes to whom it rightfully belongs; to him I will give it."

http://askelm.com/doctrine/d020802.htm

 

[LadyEagle]

Roby, please see the 2nd chart on this link entitled "The Royal Lines from Zarah and Pharez Judah" & comment. Thanks, LE

http://asis.com/~stag/royalty.html#Davidic%20Covenant

 

[rsr]

Wishful thinking; more 19th century British Israelism run amok with absolutely no documentation except fancy.

 

[prophecynut]

Correct rsr, I'm surprised LE believes in it.

True that David's offspring continues today but not his throne.

Quote from asis.com:

"Methinks Judah is ruling the United States as well."

There are Judahic descendents living in the United States but not ruling it, rather his brother Esau is through his descendents the Edomites, they also control England and Israel.

 

[LadyEagle]

I read where most of the US Presidents are related to British royalty. Even the last election, both Bush & Kerry are distant cousins.

"But both candidates have a remarkable number of royal connections and both are related to (Britain's) Queen Elizabeth," he added.

Brooks-Baker said there has always been a significant "royalty factor" in those who aspired to the White House, with Presidents George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Theodore and Franklin Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan among others all with strong blue blood links.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/05/elec04.prez.royal.reut/

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
I read where most of the US Presidents are related to British royalty. Even the last election, both Bush & Kerry are distant cousins.
...........

Brooks-Baker said there has always been a significant "royalty factor" in those who aspired to the White House, with Presidents George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Theodore and Franklin Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan among others all with strong blue blood links.

........[/QUOTE]

I dabble in genealogy. And I'm sure it's true that the above presidents have royal ancestry from England.
But so do about 60-100 million Americans.
I have royal ancestry from England. But lest one thinks that is impressive, most of us 100 million Americans that do have to go back over 20 generations to find it. At 20 generations back, you have over 2 million ancestor slots on your chart. Certainly the same people fill in more than one slot, but even if you had several royal ancestors, you would have potentially millions at that generation level who were not royal.
And so what,anyway, to some degree. Ancient kings sometimes ruled areas smaller than my backyard.
There has always been a big wishful component to genealogy. Ancient kings often have attached themselves to ancient pedigrees to try to shore up their claims to royalty.

Karen

 

[rsr]

Originally posted by Karen:
Ancient kings often have attached themselves to ancient pedigrees to try to shore up their claims to royalty.

Absolutely true.

Anyway, as Karen said, royal blood is not that special. Geneticists think there are 16 million male descendants of Genghis Khan alive today.

 

[Humblesmith]

The split between Israel and Judah was temporary. It started with Solomon's sons (it was one nation before that) and ended with the captivity to Babylon. By the time of Christ, the tribes were all living in one country. See Luke 2:36, where Anna, of the tribe of Ashur, lived in the temple, right there with Paul, of the tribe of Benjamin. By the time of James 1.1, all the tribes were scattered.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by rsr:
Wishful thinking; more 19th century British Israelism run amok with absolutely no documentation except fancy.

I agree with you 100%, rsr. There is no actual historical, independent evidence to support these claims.

As the the claim that there is nothing in the Bible to disprove it, then how about this claim?

C4K is a descendent of the throne of David. Can you give me Bible proof to refute it?

England and the US are man made states like any other. We have no evidence that they are in any way "special" in God's eyes.

There is one undeniable statement in the OP however

The early history of the origins of the British royal line is rather fuzzy,I admit

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by C4K:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rsr:
Wishful thinking; more 19th century British Israelism run amok with absolutely no documentation except fancy.

I agree with you 100%, rsr. There is no actual historical, independent evidence to support these claims.

As the the claim that there is nothing in the Bible to disprove it, then how about this claim?

C4K is a descendent of the throne of David. Can you give me Bible proof to refute it?

England and the US are man made states like any other. We have no evidence that they are in any way "special" in God's eyes.

There is one undeniable statement in the OP however

The early history of the origins of the British royal line is rather fuzzy,I admit

</font>[/QUOTE]Funny, you don't look jewish...

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Did I misread or did you claim that the Davidic line was carried on through the kings of Ireland?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Roby, please see the 2nd chart on this link entitled "The Royal Lines from Zarah and Pharez Judah" & comment. Thanks, LE

http://asis.com/~stag/royalty.html#Davidic%20Covenant

I would advise reading this link, it claims that Jesus spent time in England and that Paul established a seminary there.

 

[CarolinaBaptist]

I have been fascinated by this subject for many years now. There is no way that the literal and unconditional promises God made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are fulfulled by the Jewish people. Where else can we turn but to world history to look for the identifying marks the scripture gives us. I have to disagree with my Reformed brethren as well in their belief that these promises have been passed on to the church. Israel and Judah were never reunited in the biblical record. Even our Lord stated that He was sent only to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel that had been taken captive by Assyria(along with all of the fenced cities of Judah(1 Kings 18:13?)and never returned. I have always wondered why Christianity took such a stronghold on Europe almost immediately after Calvary and my belief is because the scattered Israelites(James 1:1) were there.

 

[LadyEagle]

Another interesting link:

http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/spainandbrit.html

 

[rsr]

Tracing ancestry according to philology can be very tricky, as Alexander Hilsop proved.

Some folks also think the Cherokees and Seminoles descended from the Cilician Phoenicians ...

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
Another interesting link:

http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/spainandbrit.html

The Mormon speculation that Jesus preached in the americas after His resurrection is also interesting and has the same amount of "evidence."

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

For the line to be continuous it also must make a tenuous connection through the "Irish kings."

This is extremely difficult to support. Ireland has no recorded history before the arrival of Patrick in the the early 5th century, and even those records are fuzzy.

The oral tradition of is of a few petty clan leaders constantly fighting over plots of land. Until the coming of the Vikings the Irish never lived in cities or even but, but small, enclosed clan dwellings. This who ruled over these settlements are considered themselves "kings of Ireland." It does appear that the strongest of the these clan leaders, who lived Tara, most often laid claim to the title High King of Ireland, but a very small number accepted that title.

Interesting speculation here folks, but based on fuzzy history, myths, and legends. Not much solid ground here to build a substantive statement that England and the US somehow are the true line of David.

 

[LadyEagle]

Amazingly, I have found the book "Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright" written over 100 years ago in 1902 by JH Allen on Line:

An Analysis of the Prophecies of the Scriptures in regard to the Royal Family of Judah
and the Many Nations of Israel, the Lost Ten Tribes

Link

Interested readers can read, print, and study this entire book in the Light of Scripture, if desired - Contents list is on the left at the link above.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The Scottish kilt is a direct reminder of Joseph's coat???

A souvenir of this coat of many colors which Jacob made for Joseph is still found in the many-colored plaid, as worn by the Scotch Highlanders, not only at home, but by Highlander societies, which exist in nearly every large Anglo-Saxon city. The use of this van-colored plaid, and the custom of wearing it, can be traced as far back as the Scottish people have any history, and yet its origin among them is unknown; that is, it was unknown until they began to know that they were the descendants of Joseph.

http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/jsceptre/jsceptre.html

Is this a serious theory?

 

[LadyEagle]

Here is an interesting link about Hebrew and the English language:

http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/hebrew1.html