England & the USA

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I cannot see anywhere in the Scriptures where the promises to Isreal are bestowed on England and the USA. That is guesswork at best.

No one is substituting England and the USA for Israel, C4K. Israel is comprised today mainly of some Jews from the tribe of Judah & Levites are found there, as well as possibly those from the tribe of Benjamin. Pretty much all the other tribes were dispersed and migrated.

Interestingly, some believe the ancient "Jutes" were Jews, also. Hitler made the Jews wear the arm bands with the star of David and the word "Jude" on it, to signify they were Jews. The words Jew, Jude, Jute, all pretty much look interchangeable to me. Ancient Jutes seem to have no history that can be traced according to research I've done. They seem to just have appeared out of nowhere in ancient history as some nomadic tribe in the vicinity of Germany that later conquered England.

BTW, this is very interesting to me, considering the prophecy of the Ezekiel 38 & 39 and the two sticks coming together. </font>[/QUOTE]LE,

I only quoted the statement to which you gave a "thumbs up."

Jews, Jute, and Jude do look alike. But that is hardly what is needed to build a Bible teaching.

The Jutes conquered England? I admit that they were part of the groups who settled England along the Angles and Saxons, but conquered? I was under the impression that they were more or less absorbed in the native Celtic peoples.

The Jutes are Jews? Thats interesting. Do you have any documentation or is it conjecture based on a similar name?

 

[LadyEagle]

Jews, Jute, and Jude do look alike. But that is hardly what is needed to build a Bible teaching.

No Bible teaching is being built here. Only a mystery being researched, C4K. If you can find Bible teachings to contradict the Original Premise in the OP, please post them. I have an open mind.

The Jutes conquered England? I admit that they were part of the groups who settled England along the Angles and Saxons, but conquered? I was under the impression that they were more or less absorbed in the native Celtic peoples.

From what I've read the Jutes along with the Angles and Saxons did settle England. The Jutes settled in Kent. I cannot tell you when they conquered England, because I'm still researching. Perhaps conquered is the wrong verb.

I, and others, believe the name Saxon is derived from "Isaac’s Son." Another mystery.

The Jutes are Jews? Thats interesting. Do you have any documentation or is it conjecture based on a similar name?

Why did Hitler call the Jews, Jude? Was that conjecture, too?

I am truly interested in finding out the answer to that.

There is a passage in the OT when speaking of the dispersion that those dispersed would not remember who they are. If I can recall it, I'll post it.

Also, the two sticks - the two Houses of Israel do come together, Ephraim and Judah, in the yet to be fulfilled Bible prophecy of Ezekiel. (Ezekiel 37, not 38 & 39 as I posted above)

1
1 The hand of the LORD came upon me, and he led me out in the spirit of the LORD and set me in the center of the plain, which was now filled with bones.
2
He made me walk among them in every direction so that I saw how many they were on the surface of the plain. How dry they were!
3
He asked me: Son of man, can these bones come to life? "Lord GOD," I answered, "you alone know that."
4
Then he said to me: Prophesy over these bones, and say to them: Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD!
5
Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: See! I will bring spirit into you, that you may come to life.
6
I will put sinews upon you, make flesh grow over you, cover you with skin, and put spirit in you so that you may come to life and know that I am the LORD.
7
I prophesied as I had been told, and even as I was prophesying I heard a noise; it was a rattling as the bones came together, bone joining bone.
8
I saw the sinews and the flesh come upon them, and the skin cover them, but there was no spirit in them.
9
Then he said to me: Prophesy to the spirit, prophesy, son of man, and say to the spirit: Thus says the Lord GOD: From the four winds come, O spirit, and breathe into these slain that they may come to life.
10
I prophesied as he told me, and the spirit came into them; they came alive and stood upright, a vast army.
11
Then he said to me: Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They have been saying, "Our bones are dried up, our hope is lost, and we are cut off."
12
Therefore, prophesy and say to them: Thus says the Lord GOD: O my people, I will open your graves and have you rise from them, and bring you back to the land of Israel.
13
Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and have you rise from them, O my people!
14
I will put my spirit in you that you may live, and I will settle you upon your land; thus you shall know that I am the LORD. I have promised, and I will do it, says the LORD.
15
2 Thus the word of the LORD came to me:
16
Now, son of man, take a single stick, and write on it: Judah and those Israelites who are associated with him. Then take another stick and write on it: Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.
17
Then join the two sticks together, so that they form one stick in your hand.
18
When your countrymen ask you, "Will you not tell us what you mean by all this?",
19
answer them: Thus says the Lord GOD: (I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and of the tribes of Israel associated with him, and I will join to it the stick of Judah, making them a single stick; they shall be one in my hand.
20
The sticks on which you write you shall hold up before them to see.
21
Tell them: Thus speaks the Lord GOD I will take the Israelites from among the nations to which they have come, and gather them from all sides to bring them back to their land.
22
I will make them one nation upon the land, in the mountains of Israel, and there shall be one prince for them all. Never again shall they be two nations, and never again shall they be divided into two kingdoms.
23
No longer shall they defile themselves with their idols, their abominations, and all their transgressions. I will deliver them from all their sins of apostasy, and cleanse them so that they may be my people and I may be their God.
24
My servant David shall be prince over them, and there shall be one shepherd for them all; they shall live by my statutes and carefully observe my decrees.
25
They shall live on the land which I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where their fathers lived; they shall live on it forever, they, and their children, and their children's children, with my servant David their prince forever.
26
I will make with them a covenant of peace; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, and I will multiply them, and put my sanctuary among them forever.
27
My dwelling shall be with them; I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28
Thus the nations shall know that it is I, the LORD, who make Israel holy, when my sanctuary shall be set up among them forever.

Do we agree, C4K, that this passage (two sticks)speaks of a future event?

 

[LadyEagle]

Here's a link about Jute/Jude/Judah/Jew:

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/p18.htm

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Why did Hitler call the Jews, Jude? Was that conjecture, too?

Juden is German for Jews. What do word similarities have to do with God's OT promises to His people?

I find you link to provide more conjecture and guessing - even thye use the phrase "must have" rewithout any reason why it "must have" other than it fits their theory.

I don't know about the "two sticks." I would have to look into that. Is it your claim from the passage above that one day the US and the UK will be reunited into one nation?

If I claimed that Africa held claim to the promises to Israel could you refute that? OF course not. Can you biblically refute the Mormon claim that Jesus went to Central America after the resurrection? Of course not.

 

[LadyEagle]

I don't know about the "two sticks." I would have to look into that. Is it your claim from the passage above that one day the US and the UK will be reunited into one nation?

No, but if the US/UK are of the House of Ephraim, they will be united with Judah/Nation of Israel at the Battle of Armageddon, according to Ezekiel 37.

And, if we are of the House of Ephraim, we may not know it, but Satan does since he has roamed this earth all during the history and knows where the children of Israel were dispersed. So I do not find the US/UK support of the Nation of Israel a surprise. Nor do I find it surprising that when our enemies, spawned by fervent hatred (hate, coming from Satan), burn the Israeli flag, our US flag is burned right along with it, and sometimes the UK flag is burned along with it to. Look at any video - I'm never surprised to see our three flags going up in flames with chants of Death to America, Death to Israel. On the surface, one can argue that they hate us for standing with Israel. But the real reason may be on a deeper spiritual level other than the apparent spiritual level.

Let me explain it this way, since, on a forum, it is hard to translate what one means into words...Have you ever met someone for the very first time, but you felt as if you had known them all your life? Yet there is no explanation, just something that is there.

As far as Africa, have you heard or read about the Falash, Hebrew Ethiopians? (They do not call themselves Jews, from what I've read.)

http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/judaism/falash.html

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Sorry LE, but we have been over and over with this. You have no proof either Scriptural or historical for your views tha the UK/US are Ephraim. They are opinions and are worthy of consideration is that light only.

God never mentions the UK/US. That is conjecture.

Why not follow your Falash line? That may have more merit.

 

[LadyEagle]

The name Manasseh means "to forget."

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I always appreciate a debate with you LE. I never fell like we get into a "fight" when we disagree.

Thanks

and Happy New Year!

 

[rsr]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:
And, if we are of the House of Ephraim, we may not know it, but Satan does since he has roamed this earth all during the history and knows where the children of Israel were dispersed. So I do not find the US/UK support of the Nation of Israel a surprise. Nor do I find it surprising that when our enemies, spawned by fervent hatred (hate, coming from Satan), burn the Israeli flag, our US flag is burned right along with it, and sometimes the UK flag is burned along with it to. Look at any video - I'm never surprised to see our three flags going up in flames with chants of Death to America, Death to Israel. On the surface, one can argue that they hate us for standing with Israel. But the real reason may be on a deeper spiritual level other than the apparent spiritual level.

Who is "we" who are part of the House of Ephraim? The United States is a big and diverse country. Can you twist everything to include some mythic Jewish ancestry?

As to hatred of the U.S., Israel and the U.K.: You don't need to look below the surface. That explains it all. The Arabs were eager to have the British as allies against their fellow Muslims, the Turks, in World War I — until they felt they'd been stabbed in the back by British and French policy.

King Ibn Saud specifically rebuffed the British (with the connivance of Sir John Philby, father of the infamouse spy) in favor of the Americans when he was considering oil concessions. No racial hatred there, it seems.

As to your continued reliance upon etymology — Alexander Hislop made the same kind of overreaching mistakes. Just because a word in one language sounds like another does not mean there is necessarily a relationship.

 

[rsr]

Originally posted by C4K:
Why not follow your Falash line? That may have more merit.

Absolutely.

 

[LadyEagle]

Originally posted by C4K:
I always appreciate a debate with you LE. I never fell like we get into a "fight" when we disagree.

Thanks

and Happy New Year!

Happy New Year to you, too, C4K.