Enough light for all mankind individually?

[PreachTREE]

Not in the sense that you mean common grace as a Calvinist.
As a Non-Calvinist Grace is Grace and all grace can LEAD one to repentence but will not MAKE one repent as it is their...**cough-choice**. :smilewinkgrin: :laugh:

Elect do have a choice. And all of them say "yes." :tongue3:

 

[Marcia]

That little bit of light is counter cultural to where ever they are and if they choose to know it (or more of it) God will send unto them the fullness OF that light or truth. That grain of mustard seed truth so to speak. God will not allow that person do die in sin IF they will believe even that little light of truth but WILL send Someone to them (even if He has to translocate them like Philip)

Allan, this is how I like to think but I am not convinced there is solid scriptural support for this.

Also, I don't think the mustard seed Jesus talked about has anything to do with salvific faith. Also, Amy, I am not sure Mk 4.24 and 25 can be shown clearly to support this idea. If that's all we have for this, it isn't much.

I think we like to think this is true as it keeps us from having to believe the uncomfortable idea that some will be separated from God without any "chance" so to speak. But the bottom line is that all of us deserve that.

 

[Allan]

Elect do have a choice. And all of them say "yes." :tongue3:

Those unsaved did to but they chose "no" :thumbs: :laugh:

 

[Allan]

Allan, this is how I like to think but I am not convinced there is solid scriptural support for this.

I think Paul gives a good discription of it in Rom. Where speaks that those NOT under the Law are a law unto themselves (conscience) and that nature itself declares there is a God so by at least these two they will be judged on what they did with truth for they are WITHOUT excuse. (accept or reject) This allows us to know that they are Judged on what Truth they will or will not believe.

Also, I don't think the mustard seed Jesus talked about has anything to do with salvific faith.

That is not what I meant. I was simply using it as an illistration that whatever truth they DO have IF they will believe (accept) it they WILL desire to know more and God WILL send them someone to open their eyes to the Fullness of God and His Truth Christ Jesus.

Also, Amy, I am not sure Mk 4.24 and 25 can be shown clearly to support this idea. If that's all we have for this, it isn't much.

Actaully it is very clear that what we have with regard to truth we are accountable as to what we do with it. The more truth you have makes you more responsible toward it. So the more truth you reject the greater your judgment will be.

This is one reason why scripture says don't just jump into being teachers as they will be judged more stricly than other due to their knowledge and obedience to it.
...Parphrased

I think we like to think this is true as it keeps us from having to believe the uncomfortable idea that some will be separated from God without any "chance" so to speak. But the bottom line is that all of us deserve that.[/QUOTE]

 

[AresMan]

I never said I was a Calvinist. I am mainly being inquisitive.

Just wondering, about the "free choice" idea, where does the Fall play in this idea of "free choice"? Do we make choices in a vacuum? Do we just arbitrarily choose one way or another (eeny, meeny, miney, moe)? Do we always choose the perceived beneficial option in any circumstance?

 

[russell55]

I think Paul gives a good discription of it in Rom. Where speaks that those NOT under the Law are a law unto themselves (conscience) and that nature itself declares there is a God so by at least these two they will be judged on what they did with truth for they are WITHOUT excuse. (accept or reject) This allows us to know that they are Judged on what Truth they will or will not believe.

I do think that people are judged on the basis of how much light they have. But I think that Romans 1-3 as a whole passage tells us that this still leads to universal condemnation. No one reacts positively to the light of creation, and no one keeps perfectly the law (imperfect though it is) that they give themselves.

. . . Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin. . . .

. . . there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

The only hope for anyone is being

justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

which I would take as meaning that while people are all condemned on the basis of the light that they have, they all need knowledge of Christ's death in order to be saved from that condemnation.

Christ death is called a "public display" and a "demonstration", but I don't news of that public display has gone out to everyone.

 

[Marcia]

I think Paul gives a good discription of it in Rom. Where speaks that those NOT under the Law are a law unto themselves (conscience) and that nature itself declares there is a God so by at least these two they will be judged on what they did with truth for they are WITHOUT excuse. (accept or reject) This allows us to know that they are Judged on what Truth they will or will not believe.

I think Rom 1 and 2 mainly shows that all men are condemned. They have the truth of a Creator through nature and through a conscience but they reject it. I do agree they will be judged on this, but not saved. So it might determine the kind of judgement they get (speaking of non-salvation).

I was simply using it as an illistration that whatever truth they DO have IF they will believe (accept) it they WILL desire to know more and God WILL send them someone to open their eyes to the Fullness of God and His Truth Christ Jesus.

But where in the Bible is this stated or implied? I am wrestling with this issue as I am not fully convinced that people respond in a positive way to the light they are given (outside of God's word is what I'm talking about). I sometimes think that people are given light but they don't respond unless the HS acts on them.

Actaully it is very clear that what we have with regard to truth we are accountable as to what we do with it. The more truth you have makes you more responsible toward it. So the more truth you reject the greater your judgment will be.

I can agree with this if we are talking about the unsaved.

 

[Tom Butler]

We find in Romans 1 and 2 a couple of interesting things.

One, the awareness of creation should lead them to conclude that there is a Creator.
Two--an awareness of law. That is, of right and wrong. Paul says they are a law unto themselves.

So each person has a moral code of some kind (the law written on their hearts?). Their problem is that they can't keep it perfectly. That will be the basis of their condemnation.

In the same way we we understand that the Law condemns us (the schoolmaster), their own law condemns them. For those of us who have heard the gospel of Jesus Christ, we recognize that conviction is of our sin (breaking the law) and God's righteousness (which we lack).

The heart of the gospel is that Jesus died for us, so that we would not have to bear the punishment for breaking the law.

Since the pagans have no such gospel, they can't be condemned for rejecting Christ. Their own moral law condemns them.