Enough Religion to Make One Miserable

[rockytopva]

"The trouble with many men is that they have got just enough religion to make them miserable. If there is not joy in religion, you have got a leak in your religion." - Billy Sunday

"We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another.” - Jonathan Swift

I met a man whom I worked with who never showed any signs of Christianity until after he retired. Now he even plays his instrument during the worship. During conversation I began a topic on some biblical subject. His response was that the entire Bible was written in Hebrew. It seemed like that thought comforted him as coming to a place of arrival. I would have pointed out that the New Testament was written in the Greek but that would have spurned an unwelcomed conversation. So I basically gave him a tap on the shoulder along with a "God Bless you!" He seemed to have had enough understanding to comfort himself with so with that I turned away.

There are those who have even gotten much college education, and with that understanding you find very little Christian character. And then you have the uneducated who are unbelievably charitable and show much of the fruit of Christ and of his Holy Spirit. It is always nice to find a wonderful Christian spirit formed within along with the educated mind...

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, - Galatians 4:19

Which is why I do not recommend any certain doctrine as we have such a variety of character within the same mental doctrinal setup.

 

[canadyjd]

"The trouble with many men is that they have got just enough religion to make them miserable. If there is not joy in religion, you have got a leak in your religion." - Billy Sunday

"We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another.” - Jonathan Swift

I met a man whom I worked with who never showed any signs of Christianity until after he retired. Now he even plays his instrument during the worship. During conversation I began a topic on some biblical subject. His response was that the entire Bible was written in Hebrew. It seemed like that thought comforted him as coming to a place of arrival. I would have pointed out that the New Testament was written in the Greek but that would have spurned an unwelcomed conversation. So I basically gave him a tap on the shoulder along with a "God Bless you!" He seemed to have had enough understanding to comfort himself with so with that I turned away.

There are those who have even gotten much college education, and with that understanding you find very little Christian character. And then you have the uneducated who are unbelievably charitable and show much of the fruit of Christ and of his Holy Spirit. It is always nice to find a wonderful Christian spirit formed within along with the educated mind...

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, - Galatians 4:19

Which is why I do not recommend any certain doctrine as we have such a variety of character within the same mental doctrinal setup.

So, are you saying it doesn’t really matter what you believe as long as you have a “Christian spirit” to do good things?

peace to you

 

[rockytopva]

So, are you saying it doesn’t really matter what you believe as long as you have a “Christian spirit” to do good things?

peace to you

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. - Matthew 22

 

[canadyjd]

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. - Matthew 22

So, are you saying it doesn’t really matter what you believe as long as you have a “Christian spirit” to do good things?

I’m just attempting to understand your point. A simple yes or no would be nice.

peace to you

 

[rockytopva]

So, are you saying it doesn’t really matter what you believe as long as you have a “Christian spirit” to do good things?

I’m just attempting to understand your point. A simple yes or no would be nice.

peace to you

The Apostle Paul said... "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners." - 1 Corinthians 15:33

I have been 50 years in the Christian religion. The most amazing thing to me is that we can have wonderful and terrible people all within the same doctrinal mindset. Yes... It is nice to believe in the right things... And... It is nicer when a quality Christian spirit makes its way the 16" from the mind to the heart. Which is not always the case!

 

[canadyjd]

The Apostle Paul said... "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners." - 1 Corinthians 15:33

I have been 50 years in the Christian religion. The most amazing thing to me is that we can have wonderful and terrible people all within the same doctrinal mindset. Yes... It is nice to believe in the right things... And... It is nicer when a quality Christian spirit makes its way the 16" from the mind to the heart. Which is not always the case!

Ok, so I see you won’t explain what you mean plainly, so I’ll leave you to your thread.

peace to you

 

[rockytopva]

Ok, so I see you won’t explain what you mean plainly, so I’ll leave you to your thread.

peace to you

John Wesley was almost in despair after a disasterous trip to America and loosing his dad. He did not have the faith to continue to preach. When death stared him in the face, he was fearful and found little comfort in his religion. To Peter Böhler, a Moravian friend, he confessed his growing misery and decision to give up the ministry. Böhler counseled otherwise. "Preach faith till you have it," he advised. "And then because you have it, you will preach faith." On May 24th, 1738 he opened his Bible at about five in the morning and came across these words, "There are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, even that ye should partakers of the divine nature." He read similar words in other places. That evening he reluctantly attended a meeting in Aldersgate. Someone read from Luther's Preface to the Epistle to Romans. About 8:45 p.m. "while he was describing the change which God works in the heart through faith in Christ, I felt my heart strangely warmed. I felt I did trust in Christ, Christ alone for salvation; and an assurance was given me that He had taken away my sins, even mine, and saved me from the law of sin and death."

The heart strangely warmed… There were many doctrinally correct yet berefit of this experience!

 

[canadyjd]

John Wesley was almost in despair after a disasterous trip to America and loosing his dad. He did not have the faith to continue to preach. When death stared him in the face, he was fearful and found little comfort in his religion. To Peter Böhler, a Moravian friend, he confessed his growing misery and decision to give up the ministry. Böhler counseled otherwise. "Preach faith till you have it," he advised. "And then because you have it, you will preach faith." On May 24th, 1738 he opened his Bible at about five in the morning and came across these words, "There are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, even that ye should partakers of the divine nature." He read similar words in other places. That evening he reluctantly attended a meeting in Aldersgate. Someone read from Luther's Preface to the Epistle to Romans. About 8:45 p.m. "while he was describing the change which God works in the heart through faith in Christ, I felt my heart strangely warmed. I felt I did trust in Christ, Christ alone for salvation; and an assurance was given me that He had taken away my sins, even mine, and saved me from the law of sin and death."

The heart strangely warmed… There were many doctrinally correct yet berefit of this experience!

Nice story

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[rockytopva]

Nice story

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

God’s Blessings on you as well. I believe during these post Covid times it is going to be challenging to see churches returned to doing well as in times past. This past week we just saw a large local church sold to turn into apartment buildings.. Buyer of Roanoke's Calvary Baptist Church plans apartments

 

[KenH]

"The trouble with many men is that they have got just enough religion to make them miserable. If there is not joy in religion, you have got a leak in your religion." - Billy Sunday

"We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another.” - Jonathan Swift

 

[KenH]

And then you have the uneducated who are unbelievably charitable and show much of the fruit of Christ and of his Holy Spirit. It is always nice to find a wonderful Christian spirit formed within along with the educated mind.

 

[AustinC]

So, are you saying it doesn’t really matter what you believe as long as you have a “Christian spirit” to do good things?

peace to you

This was also my question. Clearly rocky has no intention in answering you. He's more interested in telling stories with no point.

 

[canadyjd]

This was also my question. Clearly rocky has no intention in answering you. He's more interested in telling stories with no point.

Well, I think some folks don’t answer directly because they believe they are being “set up”.

I’m sure he sees a connection between the stories he posts and the point he wants to (indirectly) make.

I’d rather not guess so I’ll bow out.

peace to you

 

[rockytopva]

Well, I think some folks don’t answer directly because they believe they are being “set up”.

I’m sure he sees a connection between the stories he posts and the point he wants to (indirectly) make.

I’d rather not guess so I’ll bow out.

peace to you

Stories... My dads side of the family is from the north. Sometimes I will listen into unshackled and find someone brought up in a family where the dad is cold, temperamental, and physically abusive to his family. I can relate. It is also amazing that these folks will also confess an experience in Christ. Both John Calvin and Martin Luther were also violently inclined against their enemies. It is my viewpoint that these folks, while well studied in scripture, simply did not have a spiritual experience in Christ Jesus. They were justified in mind only.

 

[canadyjd]

Stories... My dads side of the family is from the north. Sometimes I will listen into unshackled and find someone brought up in a family where the dad is cold, temperamental, and physically abusive to his family. I can relate. It is also amazing that these folks will also confess an experience in Christ. Both John Calvin and Martin Luther were also violently inclined against their enemies. It is my viewpoint that these folks, while well studied in scripture, simply did not have a spiritual experience in Christ Jesus. They were justified in mind only.

Well, I have made it a point in my life not to presume to know if another person has God Holy Spirit indwelling.

Martin Luther might have fit your description of “miserable” prior to his understanding of the truth of God’s grace.

It has been my experience that people with little scriptural knowledge or understanding are quick to condemn those who do as not having a “spiritual” relationship or understanding of God.

Such people usually fall into serious doctrinal error.

Paul is clear that Christians are expected to grow and mature in their understanding of doctrine; to leave elementary teachings and draw closer to God through understanding His Word.

peace to you

 

[DaveXR650]

Stories... My dads side of the family is from the north. Sometimes I will listen into unshackled and find someone brought up in a family where the dad is cold, temperamental, and physically abusive to his family. I can relate. It is also amazing that these folks will also confess an experience in Christ. Both John Calvin and Martin Luther were also violently inclined against their enemies. It is my viewpoint that these folks, while well studied in scripture, simply did not have a spiritual experience in Christ Jesus. They were justified in mind only.

I have relatives from the North and South. They have all been useful in showing me the truth of the "T" Total Depravity. Same goes for Calvinists and Arminians. As for "experiences" of Christ, you ought to read Edwards. Or Martyn Lloyd Jones using the exact same illustration you used above about Wesley and what he wrote about Calvinism needing a dose of Methodism. The whole attraction of the Puritans was that they believed in an "experiential" religion. They were also accused of "warm" preaching. I'm not saying you are picking on Calvinists but your illustrations by name seem to head in that direction.

Your original point is well taken except it's something all of us need to watch out for. But precise doctrine is not the cause. Some of the most miserable people I know are miserable because someone who isn't careful with what they teach presumes to be a pastor and leads people in all kinds of directions that lead to problems. It will lead to problems even if done winsomely and with a smile that makes you want to live your best life now.

 

[rockytopva]

It is nice when a Christian Spirit accompanies the professed experience....

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you... - Galatians 4:19

 

[DaveXR650]

Sometimes I will listen into unshackled

Do you mean the radio program? I love that show. I used to listen to it on the way home when I worked evening shift.

 

[rockytopva]

Do you mean the radio program? I love that show. I used to listen to it on the way home when I worked evening shift.

I still listen to it on BBNradio.org. if you have Alexa you can ask her to play bbnradio and she will offer you a blessed day afterwards.

 

[rockytopva]

So... Denominations... If I could generalize the churches...

1. Ephesus- Messianic
2. Smyrna- Martyr - There were ten (according to Foxes Martyrs)
3. Pergamos - Orthodox- A pygros is a tower
4. Thyatira - Catholic- Jezebel was a force in the middle ages
5. Sardis - Protestant- A gem is elegant
6. Philadelphia - Love - But... In and out of revival
7. Laodicea- Lukewarm and materialistic

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do." - Saint Ambrose

I did take my dad to both a Lutheran and Southern Baptist breakfast this past week. I must say they are a more professional looking bunch with many degrees. I enjoy the fellowship and will sometimes attend in service. In which... When in a Baptist church I do as the Baptist do.