RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
I cited two instances in post #15. Take 'em or leave 'em.
As I said, I'm not going to try to make a doctrine out of it.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Entertaining Angels Unaware
- Thread starter tyndale1946
- Start date
As I said, I'm not going to try to make a doctrine out of it.
The Lord’s Prayer for starters.
We are forgiven as we forgive others.
It fits with the measure we measure will be measured unto us.
It fits with blessed are the merciful, mercy will be shown them.
It fits with the parable of the unforgiving servant.
Do I really need to explain this to bible believing Christians?
Dude please, do I really?
When people die holding a grudge, they are making an unclean offering of themselves.
They must go and make peace with their brother, then bring their offering, only they can’t because they are dead and in the hands of The Living God who can not receive such an offering.
This is one those areas I was talking about, where people can definitely twist scripture to their destruction.
We pray very hard for people who are dying for this reason.
Don’t die holding grudges, die having forgiven everyone.
Last edited:
37818
Well-Known Member
Re: Post #15.
Two comments. The text never said Jesus actually sweat blood. And the angel strengthened Jesus prior to Him having His sweat on the ground as if blood. ὡσεί.
37818
Well-Known Member
Which Jesus explained while under the Law prior to the promise under the New Covenant, Jeremiah 31:31-34, Hebrews 8:12.
Which Jesus explained in the Gospel, which is in the New Testament, which is for the New Covenant.
I remember some Church of Christ dudes years ago who would play this game with “dispensations “ saying why certain NT passages did not apply to them.
I hope you aren’t motoring down that freeway dude.
Well, you might not choose it as a 'hill to die on', but the tangent is deep and very interesting (to some of us at least).
His prayer in the garden:
39 And he went forward a little, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt. Mt 26
Was not the only such prayer:
7 Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear, Heb 5
The 'cup' was death, and God HEARD His supplications, and saved Him from death by raising Him from the dead.
The Jews killed Him but God raised Him from the dead.
Passages from the Messianic Psalms fully support this interpretation of Mt 26:39 & Heb 5:7:
He asked life of thee, thou gavest it him, Even length of days for ever and ever. Ps 21:4
For thou wilt not leave my soul to Sheol; Neither wilt thou suffer thy holy one to see corruption. Ps 16:10
8 I cried to thee, O Jehovah; And unto Jehovah I made supplication:
9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?
10 Hear, O Jehovah, and have mercy upon me: Jehovah, be thou my helper. Ps 30
4 The cords of death compassed me, And the floods of ungodliness made me afraid.
5 The cords of Sheol were round about me; The snares of death came upon me.
6 In my distress I called upon Jehovah, And cried unto my God: He heard my voice out of his temple, And my cry before him came into his ears. Ps 18
4 Pluck me out of the net that they have laid privily for me; For thou art my stronghold.
5 Into thy hand I commend my spirit: Thou hast redeemed me, O Jehovah, thou God of truth.
13 For I have heard the defaming of many, Terror on every side: While they took counsel together against me, They devised to take away my life.
14 But I trusted in thee, O Jehovah: I said, Thou art my God.
15 My times are in thy hand: Deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me.
16 Make thy face to shine upon thy servant: Save me in thy lovingkindness.
17 Let me not be put to shame, O Jehovah; for I have called upon thee: Let the wicked be put to shame, let them be silent in Sheol.
22 As for me, I said in my haste, I am cut off from before thine eyes: Nevertheless thou heardest the voice of my supplications When I cried unto thee. Ps 31
( and there are too many other lengthy ones to include here)
37818
Well-Known Member
So the crucifixion was just an extra for show? No. Two plans for forgiveness
1) Forgive in order to be forgiven.
2) The New Covenant forgiveness full and complete, not to be taken back in any way, Jeremiah 31:34, Hebrews 8:12, Hebrews 10:17.
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
I’m sure that’s true, and it is of course of great interest. And thanks for the references.
Also, the temptation to throw himself from the temple, in which Satan quotes scripture accurately but applies inaccurately, implied angels would rescue Jesus from deadly situations.
Jesus doesn’t contradict that idea, but notes one must not test God. (See Matt 4:5-7; Luke 4:9-12.)
So at the very least, the premise is there.
Of course He doesn't, He affirms it:
53 Or thinkest thou that I cannot beseech my Father, and he shall even now send me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 How then should the scriptures be fulfilled that thus it must be? Mt 26
I remember a Protestant dude left a note saying it was alright that he killed himself, that he had complete faith in his salvation.
This is where the twisting of scripture bears it’s eternally fatal and ugly fruit.
It’s not a game, the drama of salvation is very real.
The Lord’s Prayer applies to all in the New Covenant, we ask to be forgiven as we ourselves forgive others.
We must remain in Christ our life to the end.
“Once saved always saved “ doctrine is a tradition of men, not taught by scripture.
Private interpretations are so deadly.
37818
Well-Known Member
Can God lie? Did Jesus lie?
John 10:28, ". . . And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, . . ." Who are them? Some are once saved always saved.
Nothing and no one can pluck you out of Gods hand, but you.
No one can pluck you from a car going at 100 miles an hour, but you can bail out yourself.
John 15 “5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.”
9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.“
We must remain in Jesus Love, which means keeping His commands, avoiding sin, loving and forgiving others.
Those holding grudges have cut themselves off, they aren’t remaining in Christ’s love.
We are forgiven as we forgive others.
In extending mercy to others we are extended mercy.
This is where misunderstanding the scriptures can end in destruction.
For the Love of Jesus, do not hold grudges or be hardened in them.
Make peace with your brother today. There are no grudges in The Kingdom.
The best way to start forgiving others is to tell Jesus you desire to forgive someone and pray for that person for blessings and desiring their good. Ask the Lord to heal theirs and your inner most hurt regarding the situation.
I promise you dude, Jesus can heal the most terrible wounds, He will graft you back. Just remain in His Love
37818
Well-Known Member
ουχ αρπασει τις also excludes one from removing self.
ουδεις δυναται again also excludes one from removing self.
No it doesn’t. That’s why Jesus says to remain in His Love and people can severe themselves from the vine and not remain in His Love, by not following His commands.
People can be severed from the vine, be withered branches and be burned.
“If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.”
Last edited:
37818
Well-Known Member
1 John 3:6, ". . . Every one remaining in him sins not: every one sinning has not seen him, nor known him. . . ." Smith's Literal Translation.
37818
Well-Known Member
John 10:28, ". . . they shall never perish, . . ." That Greek two word phrase translated "never" means, not in any way. . . . ου μη . . . .
His commandmens, 1 John 3:23, ". . . And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. . . ."
John 3:16 and John 13:34.
How can anyone keep one's name in God's book? Revelation 20:15. Exodus 32:33. Revelation 3:5. 1 John 5:4-5.
Last edited:
So long as they remain in Christ, they will never perish.
But “If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.”
37818
Well-Known Member
We are not passive, in this. We must keep His commands to remain in His Love. To Love to forgive, and to sin no more.
People can be attached branches then choose not to remain, to then wither and be burned. Having had life and grace in them, then choosing not to remain on the vine.
Romans 11:22, Paul says, “Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”
In Galatians 5:4, Paul says, “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.”
We must remain in His Love and continue in His Kindness, it is ongoing. Remaining and continuing.
Are you remaining in His Love if you hate your brother?
“If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.”
“ If you love me, you will keep my commandments “
We must continue to follow Christ’s commandments to remain in His Love, to continue in His Kindness throughout life.
Those holding grudges, harbouring hatred are not following Christ’s commands, they are not remaining in Him, they are cut off.