Eph 1:5

Hello Salamander.

That it would. Despot indeed.

john.

 

You made this comment in response to Wes who is infamous on this board for NOT being a Calvinist. You have actually found a position that provokes Calvinists and non-Calvinists alike. Consider yourself lucky!

"not!"

 

This pretty much sums up my feeilngs on this topic.

http://www.mbay.net/~jmejia/chapt53.htm

Conclusion: whoever hears the gospel always has the opportunity of being saved. The conclusion of what we have said about the predestination is that God is not unrighteous and He may do what He wants; and that the election and predestination is a sovereign act, in which man does not intervene nor do his works. But nor may anybody conclude that anyone is excluded from the plan of salvation, because everyone who believes will be saved: By Him (Jesus Christ) everyone who believes is justified (Acts 13:39); and: The righteousness of God is revealed through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe (Romans 3:21, 22). The gospel of Christ is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes (Romans 1:16). Everybody who wants to be saved, may. There is a famous phrase from Augustine, who wrote a lot about this subject: "If you are not predestined, make yourself predestined."

 

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Wes, Outwest:
Advertising is "predestine"! Ya fall for it and ya buy the product.

But, not all fall for it, nor do they buy the product.

Are those who don't still predestined?

You bet! Just a different destiny!
*************************************************
Wes, Predestine is not the same as advertise. In the Bible if something was predestined it was an absolute. Advertise is to entice.

 

Wow, this is an interesting doctrine you've created here. Even Arminians acknowledge that predestination occurred before the foundation of the world- just that it was based on prior knowledge of who would get saved. Please, Salamander, offer your profound commentary on the following verse if you will?

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

Hello Salamander.

The entire problem with predestination is caused by Pelagians that wish it away. I have no problem with it as it is a word I love. It is a word you would like to see the back of? Yes.

God is not a Calvinist? Who says? Calvin is not God nor is he a Pope but he is a great teacher of great teachers.

Problems with English? Why the trouble with the word 'elect'? Want that to disappear as well? I thought the word had something to do with selection.
The Church is Israel and Israel is the Church. The Chosen people.

I answered this and you repeat it without acknowledging my previous answer.

I've no idea what you mean but where's the scripture again?

john.

 

i did not read the link...but this is right on the money...very good...VERY GOOD

 

Having the opportunity is not the same as having the ability. No Calvinist will argue that most people in the world have had an opportunity at one time or another to hear the gospel.

I have the opportunity to jump off my balcony and try to fly like a bird.

I only have the ability of a rock and will be hurting as a result.

 

Hello TexasSky.

It's double speak and likely to mislead.
It is a denial of scripture. Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
Regeneration must precede faith. Whoever believes is saved is not a path to salvation but a realisation of salvation.

john.

 

Yep. Whoever, as long as their name is on the list?

Whosoever surely meaneth all CAN be saved!

 

It's double speak and likely to mislead.
It is a denial of scripture. Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
Regeneration must precede faith. Whoever believes is saved is not a path to salvation but a realisation of salvation.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]Hi John,

It is not double speak, it is half speak. It is true, it just leaves way too much unsaid. How can dead men want to be saved? No one is saved who does not desire salvation, even though his salvation cannot be caused by, and cannot depend on, his desire to be saved.

 

Hello whatever.

Wrong way round. Regeneration must come before we can want. It's the wrong way round. A man must be born again before he can see to want. the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Romans 8:7.
Romans 10:20 And Isaiah boldly says...
ISA 65:1 "I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me. To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, `Here am I, here am I.'

john.

 

Wrong way round. Regeneration must come before we can want. It's the wrong way round..... </font>[/QUOTE]Great - a word fight! I didn't say "can be saved who does not desire". I said "is saved (present tense, already accomplished) who does not desire". Gotta watch those tenses, bro.

 

It's double speak and likely to mislead.
It is a denial of scripture. Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
Regeneration must precede faith. Whoever believes is saved is not a path to salvation but a realisation of salvation.

john. </font>[/QUOTE]hello johnp

double talk...well could be. we shall see.
i was hoping not to see a follow-up after i said i liked the post...that said something like this..."well if you believe this..than you MUST believe this other thing"

but the words in that full statement are not bad. again..i didn't read the link. i will later

In Christ....james

 

Yes diane..... When the message is there and the Holy Spirit says come... that is when they CAN be saved. All that come will be saved. ALL that come.

but....the point is...

Who will come? No One. No one seeks after God. No one comes to God.....till....God reaches out

When they are called.. they can "chose" salvation, if you want to use that word. If they do not know of God..then how could choosing God be a choice?

 

James, we're going to have to agree to disagree because neither of us are going to budge on this. We'll just have to finish the chat when we're at that all day dinner on the ground in heaven, my brother.

 

Diane,

ok ....good deal.

because you do not know what i look like...i'll be the tall guy in white



In Christ...James

 

Do you care to explain your accusation?

verse 13, in CONTEXT, explains that faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, simply meaning that those who hear the Word can be saved, not that some will be and others can't be saved because their destiny is predetermined. That would create a doublestandard on the behalf of He who is RIGHTEOUS.

OH! the DANGERS of Calvinism!!! </font>[/QUOTE]You are right that verse 1:13 illustrates the principle so clearly stated in Eph 2:8,9. However that is not the point of my discussion of Eph 1:3-12 which is Paul speaking of God electing the apostles to spread the Gospel, which the Ephesians would not have heard without the Apostles doing their job. Then in Verse 13, Paul addresses the Believing Ephesians regarding their salvation which they recieved through faith in Jesus Christ.

I trust that you are not accusing me of being Calvinist, for if you are you'd be wrong there too!